Okay for Bono to dodge taxes like a hard-assed conservative?

Ireland, poor? Bring out your links.

According to this 2005 report, Ireland had the 9th highest income per capita in the worth, 7th if you use a purchasing-power-parity measure (apparently Ireland’s a lot cheaper place to live than Japan and Sweden).

Calling Ireland poor is different than saying it has “poverty higher than in almost any other developed nation” as the original linked article says. It looks like a pretty wealthy country whose new economic gains haven’t spread to the poorer members of society yet.

By my understanding of the issue, forgiving the debt means simply that the creditors agree to not be paid back, thus no one needs to make up the difference. I admit that I don’t know any more about this than what I’ve read in the papers, though.

Further, has Ireland lent a great deal of money to African nations?

This is bizarre. Ireland has the highest GDP per-capita in the EU, and the fourth highest in the world. It ranks higher on the Human Development Index than the Netherlands. Although it does still have a low rating on the Human Poverty Index, largely because of so many people still catching up with the run away success the country has been over the last decade, it still has less poverty than the US. Is the US a poor country?

Don’t know about ireland, but England’s tax for the rich is like 90%.
That’s why the Beatles set up Apple…they figured they’d rather give the money away than pay it in tax.
The Stones became tax exiles.

This is actually kinda old news. Here’s an article on an Irish blog about it. Also, I had a bit of a rant about it here.

It’s not 90% - it’s more like 40%. It used to be 90% when the Beatles were around - i.e. 30 years ago…

Internet - full of random bullshit.

There’s two income tax bands in Ireland - Standard rate (20%) and Higher rate (42%). All of your earnings up to the Standard Rate cut-off are taxed at the standard rate; the remainder is taxed at the higher rate. Additionally, everyone has a tax credit which is subracted from your gross tax. The remainder is what you actually pay. Of course this only applies to your salary (PAYE, or Pay As You Earn). There are other taxes that could be considered ‘rich’ taxes since it’s generally only the rich who tend to be in a position to have to pay them (Capital Gains applies when you sell a property for more than a certain price, for example) and U2’s publishing company would obviously be liable for corporate taxes.

I don’t know. Why are you a gigantic dumbass?

I still don’t understand what the hypocritical angle is. It’s hypocritical to simulataneously advocate something that might cost the government money and engage in perfectly legal tax shelters?

How about this: The government is funded by taxes. Government tax money can be used to loan money to emerging countries. If those emerging countries flake on the loans, it’s more money out of the government coffers. To offset the loss, more people need to pay more taxes.

So the question is, why does Bono want to help raise the taxes on his fellow Irishmen?

I suppose the question is, what does he do with all of that money that he saves? Give it back to the Irish poor?

So, does anyone have proof that Bono isn’t donating the tax money he saves to the poor? Does anyone have any fucking clue how much money Bono gives to charities, as a percentage of his income?

Because if not, then why are we even having this discussion? An argument can be made that paying taxes to the Irish government is a terribly inefficient method of helping the poor, so unless you have proof that he’s not making substantial personal contributions to charities, this is a stupid argument to be having.

That is, unless you have some sort of unreasoning bias against Bono - I mean, the guy is a pretty tireless crusader against poverty, and I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt until I hear otherwise.

Using this logic, when you claim the standard tax deduction for yourself in the United States, you’re “raising taxes on your fellow American.” After all, they’ll have to make up the shortfall somehow, right?

An argument can be made that paying taxes to the Irish government is a terribly inefficient method of helping the poor,

Bono doesn’t advocate general charity, he advocates for first world nations’ government charity.

Third-world debt relief is only one of the causes he supports.

Here’s a link to kidzworld which explains his history, in simple language that even hard-core righties can parse :-P

http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p4182.htm

Sure. Isn’t that exactly what liberals bitch about? That big, evil U.S. entities (and wealthy individuals) find ways to shelter their money, thus screwing the rest of us (and making it harder for the government to get all that money it needs to help the poor, etc.)?

As stated elsewhere, taxpayers paid the money that is being “forgiven.” Well, taxpayers other than Bono, I guess.

But I do also agree with Bigdruid, which is why I posted the line I did: maybe he is kicking all that extra cash he is saving to the poor. Perhaps he should open up U2’s/his own books and let us see what he does with his money, as he is certainly willing to tell others what to do with theirs.

Speaking as a moderately liberal person, I believe what I bitch about is that one of the ways the rich in America have found to shelter their money is to push flagrantly unreasonable tax cuts through Congress. I don’t mind that tax shelters exist in the first place, as I’m not above using them myself.

You really don’t mind if the poor pay a disproportionate, or at least non-progressive burden, so long as taxes aren’t cut too much? So raise taxes, but let the rich escape paying them? Or even increase taxes, but reduce how much is actually collected by allowing ploys to avoid them?

Why are you in favor of this? Is it partially akin to saying you are against unreasonable tax cuts, but okay with cutting taxes collected by avoidance schemes?

This may be shocking, but the liberal position on taxes is not “everyone should pay as much as possible.” It’s basically “pay for what society needs in a ‘fair’ manner while trying to minimize efficiency losses to an acceptable level.” No where in there is “you should feel bad for not giving every dime you have to poor people.” Sure, society should work to better the lives of the less fortunate and reduce risk, but that’s one of the end goals of “what society needs,” not the starting point.

If legal tax shelters exist, it’s perfectly fine for people to use them, although sleazy borderline breaking the law when people get really creative. This looks perfectly legal to me, and if we want to stop it you just have to change the laws.

Balderdash. This is legal in the sense that that there is no world government so the very rich can play games of dodge around country to country and jurisdiction to jurisdiction to avoid taxes. No amount of changing the law will rein this in. But it is tax avoidance.

But that’s certainly part of Bono’s platform. Straight white guilt all the way.

Speaking as a moderately liberal person, I believe what I bitch about is that one of the ways the rich in America have found to shelter their money is to push flagrantly unreasonable tax cuts through Congress. I don’t mind that tax shelters exist in the first place, as I’m not above using them myself.

This is completely and totally nonsensical.