Old World (pka Ten Crowns) from Soren Johnson

We fixed a bug with this recently, but I don’t remember if it was in yesterday’s update so please post a save if you still have it.

How do I post a save? On this forum, or through the Submit Bug button on the Main Menu?

How come I can start a new game with the same seed, and same settings, but get different resources, characters, VP conditions?

I speculate the extra daughter is due to the random succession settings. In the top version of the seed I have Enactic Cognatic Lateral, which requires female heirs. Perhaps some of the special start up rules are to ensure you have an heir who can inherit.

Just launched a few games with your settings and they were all the same… I know we just fixed some succession bugs, so maybe this is fixed in the next update?

It seemed unlikely that an update caused the issue, because the last update was Jan 7th and I rolled this seed around the 10th, then tested what happens when you input a seed on the 11th (and found it wasn’t what I expected). Nonetheless, I tried inputting that seed just now, and I get the top version of the seed, as expected.

The reason I tested inputting my own seed number is because I wanted to share it with others. 391 666 13 has a very interesting start for Babylon. I’ve replayed it multiple times, starting with different families and tech paths. I even experimented with skipping a family seat and using meta knowledge of a nearby treasure. Both are usually no-nos, but the geography is tantalizing.

The conundrums caused by this geography with Babylon are best explored by just launching in, selecting Single Player > New Game > Advanced Settings > Random Map before typing, several rows later, the map seed.

I’ll elaborate on some of the strategic considerations that tickled me, but first, I’ll share the scenario I played (also pictured above).

That fresh water timber continues all the way up. 3 tech-free food sources, 2 marble, 1 ore, by mountains. But you’ll need strong border-fu to get to those tiles, since the initial borders either relegate the player to a)1 food and 1 marble to the southwest, or b) 1 marble to the east, or c) 1 ore, to the northeast. How soon can you get all 6 resources online? And what in the fog might interfere?

Which family to settle?
We have zero resources, so starting with Hunters is always attractive. No visible nets or camps, though.
Starting with Artisans seems great: fast cultural improvement, fast urban buildings all game, and we will be building mines and lumber mills here. But it’s tough to have enough orders to operate the second worker when you only have 5 orders. Putting the first worker to work leaves you with 4. Tutoring with your scholar leader leaves 3.33. Since you can hardly scout your own second city site at this rate, it’s at least a tradeoff between tall and wide, if not a way of crippling yourself.
Traders are best seated in a high-growth area to spam caravans, if you ask me. That excludes them from capital consideration.
Having a Sage capital makes sense, since you’re bound to stack the most science there, and between the two marble and the +2 civic temple there’s good potential to go high. The biggest boon is the random tech, which leads me to the next consideration…

Which techs to research?
Babylon’s Scholar start, +20% worker/settler production (growth), and decent temples are balanced by having the worst techs: Slingers/Camps, Epics/Exploration, and Treasuries. At the start I want Ironworking, Labor Force, and probably Stoneworking, Husbandry, and Polis. Babylon has none, and they each take 7+ turns to research. Popping borders in the capital requires Divination, Polis, or Stoneworking. How and when do you get those? What do you build with your cities and workers before you have them?

Which tile to settle?
Contingent on which improvements you plan to make and in what order, you can settle any of three locations. Choosing unwisely means 10s of turns delay on getting to badly needed growth, military, and resources to sell so you can keep training heirs and dodging events.

Where to scout?
Your scout may have a large or small budget to explore, where should it go first?
Typically I try to find barbarians for my Leader-led warrior to bonk. Is that the right idea in this geography? You decide.

I’m interested if anyone else finds this a very satisfying scenario.

The Music Respawn podcast has an interview with Christopher Tin about the Old World soundtrack.

Nice find. Any interview where two people are having a chuckle over Greek Mode mnemonics and keeping a traditional lyre tuned, that is also about a wonderful game, is a good one.

As far as I know, when I started Old World around launch it was just the curated music before Tin’s soundtrack was added, but even then it was so so good. It was one of my favourite things about the experience and made it so much richer still, and what’s more: it seemed like a vast collection of pieces so I didn’t feel like I was hearing the same things over and over again, which goes a long way in these kinds of games. Thanks for sharing this, listening now!

I haven’t played an entire Old World game with the Tin soundtrack. On my to-do list.

This is me^ but I intend to correct that this year! Especially now my new PC can run it better :)

I’m playing through the tutorials and I’m stuck on the 3rd one (everyone has an opinion). I’ve achieved all of the goals but never get the victory screen. I can’t progress to the next one until this one is completed :(

Should I care or should I just jump into the game? I played the old Civ, SMAC, and other similar games, but OW seems to be doing some new stuff that I probably won’t understand without some hand-holding.

I can’t recall playing the missions that are specifically tutorial, but every time I start the game, I get plentiful tutorial tips reminding me of the basic mechanics, as they appear for the first time. (I could shut these off but never bother to.)

And you can get an extremely helpful manual at the top of this thread:

I would think that between those, you would be good to go.

Thanks, that is very helpful indeed.

Sorry for the somewhat random question, but my Internet and forum searching skills are failing me…

I’m wondering, how long does it take to play an average game of Old World to completion?

Nobody yet has.


Really? I had it in my head that Old World was relatively short for a 4x game. Not true?

Maybe 2/3 the length of a Civ game?

It depends entirely on how you play. There are design elements intended to head off the drawn-out mopping up period, so a normal game should be shorter than a comparable game of another 4X. But there’s also substantially more and different kinds of gameplay early on, so I’d say the pace evens out.

But overall, I’d agree with Pasquale’s estimate:


Thanks, @PasqualePeluso and @tomchick!

Much appreciated. I’m looking to dig into a PC strategy game with a moderate length, fun decisions, and story potential. This sounds like it will work well.

For me it is closer to half, the time of Civ game . I’ve finished about as many OW games as I did CIV IV, so say about 15-20 of each, even though I spent a lot more time playing Civ IV than OW.

Several reason for this, less turns 200 vs 500. The longer turns don’t bog down as much as they do in Civ IV. Civ turns increase almost exponential, more cities = more units, where as in OW the number of order increases basically linearly. On the other hand, I spend a lot more time thinking in OW, on things like research, who to marry, there are far fewer no brainer decisions than in Civ. That to me is a good problem to have. Finally, between double Victories and ambitions, almost all my games are between 100-150 turns. In Civ so much time is spent hitting the next turn button, to build the final spaceship part, get the final UN Vote etc. There is a lot less in OW.

I fired up the first OW game since the Christopher Tin soundtrack was added to the game. Wow, it is now my favorite game soundtrack. Baba Yetu is still my favorite song, but OW soundtrack is just gorgeous. The AI also seems to be better, I had to drop from Glorious to Noble, cause I tried 1/2 dozen games at Glorious and got crushed.