You open your entire argument talking about subtleties and gray areas and I’m splitting hairs by actually parsing what people are saying? Okay.
The problem is that I’d say it’s more:
Metro PD disperses crowd without violence –> Couldn’t the PD in this situation have bothered to try non-violent means before resorting to violent ones?
I agree that it would stupid to say “All crowds will act the same and can be dispersed in X fashion without incident”, but that’s not what I’m saying and I hope it’s not one anyone else is saying.
I would imagine they did, I have no information about that. Did they not?
H.
We have one anecdote from somebody saying they jumped right in with the leg-twisting and the pain compliance. We also have Marcus who can’t/won’t say anything specific to refute that, but says it totally doesn’t sound right for a number of reasons that he won’t clarify.
I suspect he probably can’t, being a police officer and thus somewhat enjoined from discussing police action publicly.
It may be sensitive to his actual employment so I think we should give him a pass on getting specific. I guess you’re pointing out that the prying apart wasn’t attempted, right? Obviously there would have been plenty of “disperse now!” commands from the beginning.
That is what I am pointing out.
I’m fine on giving him a pass on specifics. But he’s already discussing it, just not enough that he has to back up why he thinks things aren’t “right” in the original story or to the point that anybody could argue with him. If he wants to play the “I’m a police officer in LA and I was there and you don’t know what you’re talking about” card, he should be prepared to back that up. Otherwise all we have is that first anecdote, which says their tactics were Step 1: Tell them to disperse, Step 2: Twist legs and stomp insteps until the scream.
I would agree with that statement.
This is the greatest post of all time. In this thread.
Really starting to like the idea of helmet cams on cops. In events like this they say one thing and the other group says something else and given past police actions I’m not inclined to believe the cops.
Given past police actions the cameras would be coincidentally disabled.
I disagree, you see dash board cam footage of police misdeeds and those dont get disabled or lost. Many police departments do use the footage as a way to check up on the officers and their behaviors.
Accurized!
Ive seen stories on news broadcasts that would disagree with you. But believe whatever you want I guess.
Just one real-life example, among many. When police are issued gear with visible identification numbers with the intent that complaints against masked and/or helmeted officers in uniform can be investigated at, say, political rallies, demonstrations, or similar those numbers end up being masked if not disappearing altogether.
Well, it’s clear that bruising a person by gripping them too firmly is EXACTLY THE SAME as twisting their arm or stepping on their limbs BUT since it wasn’t permanent damage it doesn’t count as excessive because no one died but unless someone dies you can’t possibly get anyone to do anything they don’t want BUT if someone does die it’s ok since they went into the situation expecting to die and it’s not like cops can be held to any sort of standards and besides they didn’t do anything until evidence comes forward in which case it’s clear that filming police CAUSES them to behave badly so the only recourse is to ban the filming of police because it excites them too much
That post made me lose my last bit of faith in humanity. Tomorrow I awaken the Old Ones.
I hope Jason T. McMaster chooses this for his post of the week.
The problem is one of incentives and strategy, not of technology and tactics. Policemen always walk a fine line between protecting the peace and protecting the powerful at the expense of others, and if their political chain of command is compromised there’s little hope that changing procedural details could fix the issue.
For instance, rules of engagement in Iraq worked to the extent that they suited the chain of command’s objectives. The same is true here.
I’d like to take this opportunity to wish the violence and torture you’ve inflicted onto others onto you.
Morberis - Absolutely. Record everything, no “off” switch.