Operation Occupy Wall Street


#2401

There you go. See how easy that was? Nice work.


#2402

I have hope. Personally I'm hoping Walker's upcoming victory in the Wis recall election (thanks in part to the Occupy backlash) will have national repercussions, jeopardize Obama's electoral math, and prove to be a sledgehammer blow to public sector unions across the country from which they never recover.


#2403

I don't think hope means what you think it means.


#2404

And while you're hoping for the Gilded Age to come on even harder, we people with an actual grasp on reality will hope for something less destructive to the country than handing governance once again to the party that's actively trying to destroy our country.


#2405

Given your generally thoughtful and intelligent posts in other threads, I would have thought this kind of hand-wringing hysteria is beneath you.


#2406

You're saying they AREN'T actively trying to destroy the country? Their actions say otherwise.


#2407

On the other hand, Warren, that level of hand-wringing hysteria has been an amusing feature of your posts for as long as I've associated them with your username.

Arguing that anyone who cares enough about the American political process to get involved in it is actively trying to destroy the country is flat-out stupid. I think that about half of the elected American government is pursuing an economic agenda that isn't helpful, but since economics is a complicated field and I suspect they're about as sure of their policy plans as I am of mine, I'm not going to take the step of assuming bad faith.

Although, given that Qt3 P&R might as well have the subtitle 'Where we assume bad faith', engaging on this topic probably isn't very smart of me.


#2408

Go take a hard look at California aka Publicsectoruniontopia and tell me who is the one trying to destroy the country.


#2409

I don't think they're doing it maliciously. I think they're just too fucking stupid to foresee what will happen.


#2410

Then I suppose we're broadly in agreement, although I'm sure we wouldn't be if we were to get into any more detail than that.


#2411

California's problems have barely anything to do with unions and just about everything to do with a combination of complete legislative gridlock and the godawful moronic amendment/proposition system. Oh, and a complete refusal to either tax appropriately for the services the state is rendering or cut services to a level appropriate for the taxes they're willing to levy, which ties back into the first two points.

Have you been paying any attention to the antics of the Republican party the past while? I don't exactly love the Democrats - see, oh, my entire posting history for evidence - but there's a world of difference between their milquetoast spinelessness and the Republican Party of today.


#2412

Then I suppose we're broadly in agreement, although I'm sure we wouldn't be if we were to get into any more detail than that.

I don't get involved enough in politics to engage in a deeper discussion so, yeah, best not to get into it. Would be a waste of your time.


#2413

This. Just because I intend to repeat this as many times as possible before November, they just nominated a guy who

  1. Passed socialized healthcare
  2. Passed gun control
  3. Comes from a non-traditional family
  4. Is a member of a doomsday cult

If they have the cognitive dissonance to get past all of that, then macroeconomics might as well be sanskrit.


#2414

To reiterate what Aaron said, California's problems are that it has embraced the most retarded parts of both sides' fiscal policies -- no tax increases and an unwillingness to do anything to restrict entitlements. And the latter is less and less a part of the Democratic platform anymore -- entitlement reform isn't exactly a dirty word in Democratic circles these days.

Surprise surprise though, if you make everything a referendum, no one ever wants to raise taxes but they do want you to give everything more money. People are bad at math.


#2415

Isn't that the goal of all political parties and politicians in general...that think different than we do?


#2416

And that's generally the response from the other side. However, I think arguing that most of what the right is advocating and driving at right now is helpful or healthy for the country is ... just wrong.


#2417

California's problems have barely anything to do with unions and just about everything to do with a combination of complete legislative gridlock and the godawful moronic amendment/proposition system. Oh, and a complete refusal to either tax appropriately for the services the state is rendering or cut services to a level appropriate for the taxes they're willing to levy, which ties back into the first two points.

The strongest elements in the state are the unions. Who do you think backs the party in power? Who do you think has managed to maintain unrealistic pension plans even when the state has no means to pay for them? The unions run California, without the legislative gridlock I would really fear what the unions would do to California. And yes, the idiots at every level of government in the state are just as much at fault for agreeing to those pension plans.

I agree completely on the proposition system being ridiculous. It is abused and used. The legislature doesn't pass stuff, they just put it on the ballot.

As for raising taxes, that may have to happen but the legislature doesn't have the will to cut back on services anymore. I believe the state budget (without looking it up so this is based on my shitty memory) is probably 30-35% less than it was pre-bust. The problem is social services, and you can't charge more for social services. The latest budget proposal returns to the 4 day work week for government employees and more cuts for education.


#2418

I think the right has some legitimate goals, but they are playing the obstructionist right now and that doesn't do anybody any good. While states are cutting their budgets to historic levels we see the feds spend as though they can just print money. Oh, nevermind.


#2419

Prop 17 notwithstanding, California's state/local tax burden is already 6th highest in the nation, and even higher taxes are likely on their way thanks to California's idiot political class. Taxes being too low is not the problem.


#2420

Taxes are ALWAYS too low for the dems, there is no level where they would not be calling for more taxes on the 'rich'.