At the time of the incident, he was working as a security guard, which is why I said he was a security guard, not a police officer. Now I understand the point that he was an off-duty police officer, but he wasn’t acting in an official police capacity at the time, which is why I thought it was reasonable to point that out. That’s why calling it “police idiocy” was misleading.
The reason I bring it up is because people generally gloss over details like this, in favor of the sensationalist version of the story. Saying, “Police are now shoving kids off of planters!” sounds much more exciting than, “One off-duty police officer shoved a kid during a protest, and has been suspended.” Similarly, it’s exciting to talk about how one cop pepper-sprayed a bunch of innocent kids sitting on the ground minding their own business. But when one of the kids admits that they actually had the police surrounded, blocked their path when they tried to leave, then told them, “The only way you’re leaving is through us,” those details gets lost in the pages and pages of outrage. I understand that some people get caught up in the emotion and don’t examine the details, but I still think they are relevant to the discussion.
But you wouldn’t post a headline saying, “This is another typical example of school idiocy,” because that would clearly imply that the one guy (off duty) was acting on behalf of the school.
That comment was specifically directed at the person who said that an off-duty cop can get away with anything just because he’s off duty. In that context, it’s relevant to point out that, no, he can’t.
Jibble
1945
Please take five seconds and watch the first few moments of this video of the incident. He’s inside the circle, then he steps over the kids and he’s outside the circle. No one tries to stop him. He just steps right out. But I guess these details get lost, don’t they.
If a teacher molests a kid on the weekend off school grounds, the headline is still going to be “Teacher Molests Kid”. If a judge beats the shit out of his kid in his private residence, the headline is going to read, “Judge Beats Daughter”. The profession is relevant in that it serves to position the person as someone who should have known better. Please stop pretending this isn’t how the world works.
Quitch
1946
I’m confused as to why this is an example of police stupidity and not security guard stupidity.
His actions weren’t the aforementioned “idiocy” it was the police who defended him and ignored the complaint until video proof came out.
Oh, and he is a police officer.
If I take my police hat off to beat you bloody, it doesn’t count!
C’mon, we’ve all seen the gritty cop shows. When the detective “goes off duty” to “get a cup of coffee,” we all know he’s about to go all Jack Bauer on that perp’s ass. NUH UH I’M NOT A COP FOR AN UNSPECIFIED PERIOD OF TIME, UNTIL I AM AGAIN
/serious: off duty cops are still cops. It is definitely not a 9-5 job.
jeffd
1949
Every public emergency responder - cop, firefighter, EMT, etc - is trained to know that you are always representing your agency and you should act like it. I’m a volunteer fire fighter and it’s been made clear to me that if I go and do something stupid, the story will always be “Local firefighter does something stupid,” even if what I did was unrelated to my role as a firefighter. This cop was told the same thing.
The whole security guard thing for off duty cops is so strange. Scientology tried to use it them to crush their protestors by being the people, essentially, paying the cops, and now this nonsense.
This argument is glorious.
ACAB.
Quitch
1952
And a security guard. Hence my question.
Like many professions, police officers must uphold professional standards for as long as they are employed as police officers, whether they are on duty or not. It’s that simple.
No. The aforementioned “idiocy” complaint linked to a video of the guy pushing the protester. It didn’t link to a video about the police refusing to prosecute him. Nice try though.
But if you went camping on the weekend and made a campfire, the Monday morning headline wouldn’t read, “Firemen Set Fires Over Weekend.”
Scuzz
1956
But if a off-duty cop gets busted for DUI the headline is always “Cop Busted for DUI”.
But not, “Here’s another example of police violating the law.”
Sometimes I like to imagine I’m a policeman and think of how I’d hurt all the people who frighten me policemen are good and one day I will have them kill you all and you won’t laugh at me then oh no no no I’ll be the one laughing I will be king and the policemen will be my friends and I won’t need you at all not that I do now I’m a real American and you are all traitors and I belong not you so DIE
The last few pages of this thread are a great demonstration of the reason OWS needs to give up the occupy part of whatever the movement is. The conversation has now turned almost exclusively to one of constant police behavior review, which frankly is the least of the long-term concerns of the protesters. The more time and energy spend arguing over what a kick is and whether there is ever a good time to give the gift of pepper spray, the further away from the real discussion we’ll get. Yes, we can have more than one conversation at a time, but we don’t seem to be doing that anymore (and by “we,” I don’t mean just the denizens of Qt3). Police misconduct should be investigated, and the right to free speech defended, but the best response to all of this is to simply transcend it and move to whatever the next stage is.
Scuzz
1960
Yes, I am re-posting this because it applies to the last post. The occupy groups need to get on with pushing for some of these ideas while they still have a chance.
Some of the leading proposals to solve the country’s economic and political problems, offered by members of the Occupy movement who were interviewed by The Associated Press:
_ Impose a 1 percent “Robin Hood” tax on large financial transactions, and use the money to support social programs.
_ Reinstate portions of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act that were repealed in 1999. The act had prevented bank holding companies from getting into certain other types of financial ventures, effectively separating investment banking and commercial banking.
_ Freeze all property foreclosures; cap interest charges at 6 percent or less.
_ Reduce military spending; stop wars that drain financial resources.
_ Reparations; make government payments to the descendants of African slaves to reset a broken, unbalanced economy.
_ Ban big corporate donations to campaigns and set equal spending limits.
_ Instill a fair conscience and a sense of morality into the minds of big decision makers.
_ Revamp the tax code to take a higher percentage of multimillionaires’ earnings. Ensure that Wall Street and big companies pay higher business taxes.
_ Equalize public education by paying fairly and proportionately for the entire U.S. population, regulating spending by student and not by school district.
_ Pass congressional legislation that returns bankruptcy protection to student loans.
_ End corporate personhood.
_ Ensure equal-access health care for all Americans.
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Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/12/01/national/a100810S20.DTL#ixzz1fQQcqrrG
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