Paradox Plaza (official forum) can be unpleasant for devs

For sure, just busting balls here.

I think what Civ → Empire really tells us is that the power of the fantasy is extremely uh powerful, especially in highly abstract games. Welcome to me bouncing off PDX game entirely, heh.

So you’re saying the mental narrative of building up a Civilization made a huge difference?

No one disagrees about that or think that developers should interact with abusive fans. It’s the part about them complaining over the forums that they themselves (i.e., the company - not the devs personally) have 100% control over, and which they’ve allowed to develop in a certain way that makes me go wut?

That forum post about the PC gamer article is a wonderful piece of tip-toing around the problems (at the same time as it indirectly demonstrates very clearly why there is a problem).

The problem for devs is that player feedback is both a blessing and a curse. At the end of the day, most developers who aren’t just in it for the paycheck, work in development because they want the stuff they build to be used - for game devs, that means getting their games played. There are few things more motivational or better than hearing from someone who’s played your games and truly, thoroughly enjoys them. Remove the player feedback, and you also remove a lot of what drives people to make games.

There’s no simple solution to that, obviously, and in that sense at least, the forum post above is quite correct. But you don’t need a BA in communications to understand that the first step to a healthy community is zero tolerance toward toxic behavior. And in that respect, the Paradox forums have never been good. Or to put it in their words: it’s been “old-school”.

Surely Paradox have a Community Manager on their forums? That’s what their job is, manage the forums, collate the feedback and interact with the customers, leaving the devs to get on with their job.

I don’t think devs of mainstream publishers posting on forums is ever a good idea to be honest unless it’s some kind of locked thread with an explanation of “this is how this mechanic works this way and why”. They are not paid to interact with the public, it’s generally not their skill set and they often end up tying themselves in knots as they suddenly realise that their customers pick apart every little statement they make to the nth degree down to interpreting comma’s and the definitions of individual words.

Travis has stopped making games? Man, bummer…

Of course, but that’s what this whole thing is about. Paradox developers see value in having direct communication with fans, getting feedback, etc. It’s just that toxicity is demoralizing and makes devs want to pull back on that direct line. It’s there in the OP:

The first thing anyone needs to know about sales/client relations skills is that you have to have a thick skin and you can’t let rejection get to you. When you do that, you are finished. There is a reason why in business that you separate the production side from the marketing/sales side. They are different skill sets that are hard to find in the same person.

Agree with that. I really enjoyed his Rebel Galaxy games, with their southwest flavor and rundown aesthetic. I hope he comes back to it someday.

I started watching some of his stuff last night. Fantastic stuff.

I am amazed at how well people like he and Quill18 can deeply understand all of these games to casually just do an achievement run.

Agreed. I’m really disappointed I didn’t find him sooner - my youtube searching skills are apparently quite lacking (or I just wasn’t focused on his area at the time) because it isn’t like he is new or anything. His presentation style is among the best I’ve encountered.

I feel this way too. Everything seems to be in eternal development. I know there are upsides, but it ain’t how I was raised, consarn it.

Would things have come to a head if Paradox hadn’t released a broken DLC?

Which one? Stellaris or the last four HoI4 ones?

Lol if that wasn’t an intentional joke, since this came up because of the EU4 broken DLC

Yep:

image

Even worse than it looks:

wow

Why did Paradox remove the apology that was posted? I didn’t see anything necessarily bad in it apart from the fact that they had to apologize for a broken-ass DLC in the first place.

I think people were piling on to the apology in the Paradox forums.

I’ve seen a version of the apology letter that was turned into a generic boilerplate template that Paradox could use after every new DLC release by just inserting whatever the relevant version numbers are for the new release and just recycling the letter over and over.

What I don’t understand is CK3 did exceedingly well. So why the need to rush out Leviathan in such an abysmal state?

I’d love to see a developer AAR of how the DLC was published with it being so obviously broken.