Pathfinder: Kingmaker


But isn’t that any game that takes a table top game and automates part or all of it.


Yes? I should think that’s obvious, although I wouldn’t use the term automate personally. Put another way, Temple of Elemental Evil “automates” dice rolls but I don’t think you’re thinking about that when you use that term (and certainly, ToEE is a closer port of 3e than say Icewind Dale 2. But it was also closer than Ruins of Myth Drannor, for different reasons). And I don’t think Baldur’s Gate was real time because Bioware thought it would be better to “automate” turn tracking. Anyway changes when porting a ruleset from one medium to another mean you wind up with something similar, but not the actual thing. That’s also true of e.g. books to movies/tv shows. Or any piece of media translated into another medium.


I’m a little confused about pnp 2e. What if more than one character can perform more than one action (max 5) in one round? Does each character perform all his/her actions sequentially before moving on to the next character? Or are all of the characters’ actions interleaved such that character 1 performs action 1, followed by character 2 performing action 1, followed by character 1 performing action 2, followed by character 2 performing action 2, etc. etc.?

How does this process work in BG?


Certainly no videogame adaptation of a tabletop RPG is going to fully capture the experience of playing it at the table, since there are far more constraints on your freedom of action in the software environment, and there are some features that generally wouldn’t translate well or be relevant. But there are still degrees of faithfulness and moving to real time is a big step away from being faithful to the source material.

Arguably videogame RPGs are better off not trying to emulate a ruleset designed for a completely different environment, mind you.


Actually, the characters don’t act at the same time. You can tell this most easily with spell casting, when even if you pause the game and give out orders for multiple characters to cast spells, they won’t all start at the same time, instead they go in order of initiative + casting time (something that 3rd edition dropped).


I never said they act at the same time. My question had to do with whether character 1 performs all his actions before character 2, or do they trade turns with each performing one action at a time.

This page describes how each round is subdivided into 5 ticks.

[quote]Taking actions

There’s lots of confusing stuff in the rules about standard actions, full-round actions, move actions, free actions, etc. Here’s what I think is a simpler way to think about it:

  • You have 5 action points in a round to spend however you like.
  • Full-round actions cost 5 points.
  • Standard actions cost 3 points.
  • Move actions cost 2 points.
  • Free actions cost 0 points.
  • If you haven’t otherwise moved, you can always move five feet for 0 points.

So you can take one full-round action, or a standard and a move, or two moves, and all of that is along with as many free actions as you like, plus maybe a move of five feet.[/quote]

This quote suggests different characters’ actions in pnp are interleaved somehow:


Kickstarter is live and looks pretty amazing.

I’m going in for the early bird $25 level. Why not? It looks like it will be worth at least that.


Thanks for the alert. I’m surprised they think it will be done by Summer 2018…they don’t even have any stretch goals announced yet!

I’m not a Pathfinder fan, but I am very interested in the combo of RPG and kingdom builder/ruler. And Chris Avellone is a swell writer.


Some early editions of DnD did have a much more primitive initiative system than current ones which included, IIRC, the possibility for certain actions to overlap and occur simultaneously. I suspect the whole “player and monster kill each other simultaneously” possibility was heavily houseruled at various tables in the 70s and 80s :)

AD&D 2E had a few different possible systems outlined in the rulebook, which I suspect did little to improve the wild west of houseruling nature of most combat in the late 80s/early 90s:

I am unsure how this played out in BG in the background of the system; apologies.


Okay, I am still high off the awesome videos of battletech, so I pledged as well.


Pledged as well. I’ve pledged all of three things in the history of Kickstarter, and I’ve been disappointed in all three. Though I probably would have bought at least two of them.

Given how things have gone politically, anyone else concerned it’s a Russian dev?


It sounds like it’s the developer of Heroes V, with the addition of Chris Avellone.

I didn’t really like Heroes V. Though I heard the game got a lot better with the addition of the second expansion. I never gave it a second shot though.


Curious if this iso engine will be “static” / fixed (Pillars / Torment) or able to rotate like the one in Divinity: Original Sin.


I particularly enjoyed how at release D:OS only let you rotate the map ~30 degrees left or right, when clearly they had the tech to let you rotate it all the way.


True, I forgot about that! Thankfully some fans quickly released a mod that enabled that feature.


I suppose it might be easier to compare ToEE with Icewind Dale II. Regardless, I prefer taking my turns in ToEE, even if all I’m doing is killing bugbears.


ToEE is still amazing in that they really took 3E D&D and accurately made it a video game.

Sadly, no one will ever do that again. Or apparently make a D&D CRPG ever again, because reasons. Glad to see Paizo stepping up to the plate. I’ll take some 3.5/PF games thanks. They’re going BG instead of ToEE, but I’ll still take it. Maybe someday they’ll go full turn based with it.


I would have made a huge donation for turn based.


Having run Pathfinder for three increasingly hellish years, y’all crazy for wanting to have it move at anything approaching its normal pace.


With a computer doing all the heavy lifting, it wouldn’t be bad. Most of the problem with 3.5+/PF is all the math and working out various situational modifiers. Computer knocks that stuff out instantly for you. ToEE worked quite well on that system, even with the necessarily nightmarish UI to do it all.