PC is the real winner of this generation

Speaking of PC vs consoles in graphics:

Admittedly, the game is probably being demo’ed on some premium hardware. However, thats the sort of hardware thats going to be mainstream long before the PS4 or Xbox 720 come out. People here have mentioned some games for the PS2 that are suppose to look great. I don’t have God of War, but I do remember seeing it displayed at a Best Buy. I don’t remember being impressed. It might have been the low resolution, but I don’t own any PS2 games that I think look good based on technical graphic mertis when compared to PC games played on hardware from a couple years after its release. Plenty of games that have great “artistic” graphics (FFX comes to mind), but you can get those on any system regardless of hardware. Even then, better hardware means artists have more options to create visually impressive games.

yeah, that’s us, but it’s only half as obnoxious the loud new neighor next door always tryin’ to one-up ya.

Maybe it was just because it was one of the first XBox 360 games, and therefore wasn’t as optimized as well as it could have, but Oblivion is far superior on the PC graphically. And I imagine we’ll be seeing similar stories for some of the later games coming out as well.

Plus, right now there isn’t that much difference graphically between the 360/PS3 and the PC. But I imagine in a couple of years the PC will be farily far ahead in terms of graphical ability. And I don’t see a new console from Microsoft or Sony coming out in a couple of years.

Granted graphics aren’t everything, but that horsepower also includes the ability to have more advanced physics and AI. I would question whether the 360 and PS3 will be equal to the PC in terms of those areas in a couple of years.

Never mind the technical differences

What keeps me from consoles at this point in time is that most games seem to be a rehash of the Tomb Raider model. You are basically running around levels shooting stuff from a third person perspective and this has never really grabbed me. It this is your thing then a console is for you. If you enjoy different gameplay styles then the PC does have more variety.

?
Let me see what’s on my XBox 360 that I’ve played recently.

Carcasonne
Guitar Hero II
Catan
Earth Defense Force 2017
Oblivion
Rainbow 6 Vegas
Saint’s Row

Console not having different gameplay styles? U R BIAS.

But does it matter? Once upon a time you were comparing it to a console that couldn’t actually render perspective. I just can’t bring myself to care how much better Gears is going to look on the PC. I mean how much better really? Probably not that much. Graphics are so good now that with each generation you’re talking about fewer and fewer people who can actually be bothere to notice. Per pixel lighting was great, and the faces are starting to look better, but with texture resolutions as high as they are we’re talking a lot more about art than science.

Granted graphics aren’t everything, but that horsepower also includes the ability to have more advanced physics and AI. I would question whether the 360 and PS3 will be equal to the PC in terms of those areas in a couple of years.

But the full-stop problem with the PC is what is all that being optimized for? Everybody seems to be spending a lot of money, but no one seems to actually have a machine that will play these mega games until they run them on their next rig two or three years down the road. Meanwhile I had a shitty experience playing Half Life 2 when it was released. I look forward to replaying it as something that appears as the developers intended when it’s released for my 360.

Watching my girlfriend play KOTOR on her laptop made me realize how frustrating I found PC gaming at the end of my my experience as a PC gamer. Sure it runs great now, but not when I played it.

I can remember excitedly getting a copy of Freedom Force from Ken, only to find that my six month old machine had a video card that couldn’t run the game. So I went out and got a replacement with enough VRam that somehow destabilized the whole platform from then on.

I don’t want my gaming experience to be similar to that of drag racing, or any hobby that involves constant optimization and tweaking just for a few perfect sessions on the tarmac before the whole thing crashes or explodes into a fireball.

But your arguments are geared towards people who are seeking the same kind of gaming experience, but can’t decide on their delivery platform, Andrew. That argument is PS vs XBOX, whose games are all one and the same by different names. Not PC.

Do you think we’re all just complete dodos about how much simpler a console is? How much less maintenance hassle? How much less it costs? That we won’t give it up because we’re carmudgeony old farts who resist change?

Do you think I didn’t consider, long and hard last spring when I needed a new game system, that an x360 was $1000 less than a new desktop; that all my friends were getting 360’s?

And come next spring when I might want to upgrade for the next crop of games … why would I continue to play PC games if it was more trouble, more expensive, more time consuming, less streamlined, less available in stores?

My girlfriend wants puzzles and brain teasers. She’s not going to go out and buy an xbox360, she goes to Barnes and Nobles and gets a $3 book. I want a flight sim and a 4X, I don’t get an xbox360, I get a $1500 desktop. Maybe you’re cash, time or patience strapped or have three kids and for whatever reason your lifestyle trumped your taste in games. And now that you’ve switched to console you can’t bear to be told that maybe we’re still quite happy enjoying our overpriced antiquated PC’s. But speaking for myself, I’m still having lots of fun. I’m glad you consollers are too.

Never mind whether PC gaming is domed, the title of this thread is retarded. PC gaming isn’t winning anything, because there is no owner of PC gaming. You could say that Blizzard is winning this generation, but that doesn’t help anyone other than Blizzard. Certainly, PC games aren’t selling many copies of Vista because most people realize Vista is a resource hog that makes everything run slower than it would on XP, and the Vista requirement for DX10 is nothing more than a marketing scam.

Besides which, the PC is not exciting anymore. I look at the line-up of PC games and see the same games I’ve been playing for the last 10 years with prettier graphics and a few tweaks. Every once in a while you get a game like Majesty or Space Rangers 2 that is truly innovative, but the majority of the innovation right now is happening on consoles. Sure, they have their sequels and incremental upgrades too, but it was games like Pikmin and Animal Crossing that got me to buy a console in the first place. Now you have Guitar Hero and Rock Band and Wii Sports and a whole flood of DS games, and there’s nothing on the PC that captures my imagination in the same way. One of these days I’ll upgrade my PC, for reasons other than gaming, and I’ll probably give Company of Heroes a try because it’s so polished, but I highly doubt it’ll give me the same feeling of novelty I got the first time I strapped on the Guitar Hero controller and ripped through I Love Rock N’ Roll. I don’t want to play games that feel like rehashes of Command & Conquer, I want to play games that make me feel the way I did the first time I played Command & Conquer.

My situation is almost EXACTLY the same. I have the same PC, almost 1 year old, with ATI 1900XT in place of 7950GTX. I believe they are very close to the same in performance.

I’ve always been the guy to snub the console experience… I would mourn what appeared to be the loss of PC games to the “console kiddies”. But I’m now seeing that my most anticipated forthcoming games (BioShock, Quake Wars etc) are coming to the 360 as well.

Our home TV is a tube-style 27" JVC. We paid $900 (CAD) for the thing around 5 years ago…that was when plasmas were around 15 grand. Turned out to be a bad investment I guess, as it’s barely worth $200 now.

The other day I was in Best Buy and happened upon a large 1080p LCD playing the film Happy Feet from a Blu-Ray DVD player. I was slack-jawed at the quality and resolution difference. My thoughts immediately drifted to experiencing Bioshock on a screen like that, in true digital sound (another PC shortcoming!)

All of a sudden consoles are looking pretty appealing to me…

Yeah, once I hooked up my 360 to my HDTV, I was done with PC gaming. 55" of high def Gears of War was my turning point.

That’s all great. But PC gamers will have to pay ~ $2K for the visuals, as opposed to ~ $400.

Oh, and they’ll be playing a game that I played well over a year ago by the time it’s finally released.

I love me my PC gaming. I’m looking incredibly forward to the expansions of CoH & MTW2. Other then that though…

I’m sure I’ll upgrade my rig someday. It just won’t be every two years. More like every five.

And, btw, the 360 has the best multi-player experience I’ve personally ever had. It also has a stable of games much more impressive then the ones that are PC exclusives. The PC gaming community still has mods - for now anyway. But if Sony and MSFT have there way they’ll be coming to a console near you very, very soon.

None of that is quite true. There are games you have to wait for on the PC platform, but not all such as Overlord with its xbox 360 and PC simultaneous release.

There are also a lot of games which NEVER come out for consoles, as well as games that come out later then the PC version.

Finally that comment about spending 2k to keep playing games is bogus. I just built a completely new rig, totally top end, for like 1600 bucks. I did NOT need to do that to play most new games a good framerate.

You could easily argue that you will just need to spend 200 bucks every other year, if that, and maybe a major upgrade every 5 or so years depending on what you want to do. I can tell you, my box from 2002 will run most games today just fine.

Finally, you forget to add in the price differential for games between consoles and PCs. If you buy a lot of games over the life the console, that can add up to quite a bit. Also do not forget to add up the costs of ALL your consoles. If every cycle you buy a Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft console, you need to add up all of that to the cost of a PC gamer.

Except that you can rent console games.

Yes. And you can also buy them, which a lot of people do.

That assumes you already have an HDTV. I don’t and the vast majority of the rest of the public don’t either, so the price gap isn’t nearly that big (if it exists at all) when you throw in a $1000+ plus TV.

“The hardware I’m using caters to my preferences much better than the hardware I’m not using would” isn’t really much of an argument for that hardware “winning”. My prediction is that far, far into the future, there will be PCs and successful PC games, and consoles and successful console games. Perhaps there will be lots of convergence and overlap and mutual beneficiallness, or perhaps they will become strictly and clearly separated, with all the action and graphic intensive games moving over to consoles and everything else consigned to the PC. It’ll be interesting to see. And if someday I find I’m playing roguelikes on a console, it’ll be because someone found a way to make the experience even better there than it was on PC. I won’t hold my breath, but I’ll welcome the day if it ever comes. :)

The faults that some folks find in PC Gaming are often exactly what attract me. The need to tweak your system & configs is infuriating to some, but when I spend at most, 20 mins fine-tuning, and end up w/ a game at 1920x1200, nice AA and AF playing smoothly on the 24" LCD, I’m pretty happy. I also often find community created and FREE content to be the most compelling add-ons for a title. I couldn’t imagine playing Oblivion without the fantastic user created mods & enhancements that surfaced shortly after release. The maps created for the free Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory kept me involved with that game for years. I’m also a curmudgeon finding difficulty adapting to a gamepad, and can’t imagine playing a shooter or RTS with one.

I get to multi-task, and keep IRC, email ,or IM open on a dual display while gaming, voice chat with any of a number of freely available solutions, and I can play games with a level of complexity that is often stripped out of console titles due to the limited controller options, or as a result of target audience considerations. I don’t think PC is the best solution for everyone, but it is for me. The fact that I have a 1 year old, and a non-gaming wife, also makes gaming in the living room a bad idea.

I don’t find $600/year ($50/month) that difficult to keep up with cutting edge PC hardware. I sell my last-gen hardware on various online forums, (ie my 7900GTX when I bought an 8800GTX, AMD FX-60 for an Intel E6700, etc). I’m not exactly loaded, but this method keeps me playing all the new AAA releases at the highest settings on release day, and it’s pretty much my only expensive hobby/vice.

I really don’t understand these arguments people are putting forth for paying 1K-2K to upgrade their PC’s to play the latest games. Is this because you people (the ones saying this) are incapable of picking out parts and putting them in slots on your machine? I’ve been building my own machines since the early 90’s, and things have gotten far easier in the last 15 years.

Here’s what you do: The first time, you buy a case, power supply, and a top of the line motherboard just as a new pin layout becomes available for the CPU you want to use (AMD/Intel) ($200-$300). That gives you the ability to slot a new CPU over the next few years. Now, buy a CPU and RAM that’s sufficient for your needs (and nobody really needs to spend 4x as much for 10% more performance.) Budget $200 max for a CPU, $100 or so for RAM, and $200 for a video card. For RAM, be sure to buy it so that you have some slots free to add more if you need it later (IE: single gig stick instead of 2 500MB sticks.)

Two years later, you can upgrade your video card ($200) and your CPU ($200) if you really want to. You can do these at different times, or skip the CPU upgrade until you see the deal you want. Since you’re not buying bleeding edge, you don’t need it anyway. Need more ram 2 years later? Throw in another stick.

I’m running a nvidia 7900, AMD 4400 x2, 2 gigs ram. It plays everything I throw at it beautifully. I don’t see any need to upgrade any parts of the system. I don’t have an obsession with needing to run everything at 1900x1200 with 4x AA on. The graphics are already as good as a 360 in most cases. So, if I want to stay at 360 graphics level, like the 360 owners are going to do for the next 5 years (?), I’m pretty much set.

PC owners are obsessively upgrading as a result of marketing. If you want to keep up with the ‘next gen’ consoles, then keeping up with a STATIC TARGET shouldn’t be too hard. You’re probably already there, so keep using what you’re using. If you need 300 FPS on your video game, just remind yourself that the XB360/PS3 next door aren’t ever going to have that, and the extra FPS still will not enhance your ability to get laid.

Building computers now is actually less complicated than playing with LEGO, so there’s not much of an excuse to avoid it if the price differential vs purchasing a computer is significant enough for you to bitch about it.

I agree. I recently spent about $300 to really wiz-bang my PC. And it still has an AMD64 in it…3800, I think. That’s what I added recently. I have a 7950 for my card, and Oblivion runs really smooth. 2 gigs of RAM.

I’m sure I would have problems maxing out some of the forthcoming AAA titles (actually without Vista I can’t run them, I guess?). But it’s not THAT expensive to keep your PC up to date.

My problem is that I don’t choose between PC and console. I love both. Games are games.

No. But I think you’re in denial if you think the current core gaming experience is going to survive on the desktop. What I’m seeing is a market that’s no longer able to support the kind of development that a dwindling audience is demanding.

Do you think I didn’t consider, long and hard last spring when I needed a new game system, that an x360 was $1000 less than a new desktop; that all my friends were getting 360’s?

From what you’ve written here I’m guessing that you’d already made up your mind to some degree. In fact I’d guess that your friends purchases may have hardened your decision.

No offense, but most of the arguments I’m seeing come across to me more as more justification than debate. And that’s fine, but having spent the last few years working on PC casual and Wii console titles I’ve started to see the issue a little differently.

When it was a battle between a console with 1MB of VRam that couldn’t render perspective and a video card with 32MB of VRam that could I think there was a real choice. Today, not so much.

Here’s what I don’t get about the core market for the PC:
The kind of graphical differences we’re talking about now between the two are now vanishingly small, certainly nothing an average consumer can recognize without having them pointed out. And yet, for some reason, AAA PC titles are still pushing the limits of the hardware to eek out the obscure bit of power.

I’m guessing a big part of that is that the video card manufacturers still wish it was seven years ago, when games were a driving force behind their sales, and they could engage in soft collusion with the developers to make sure that games were driving hardware upgrades and vice versa.

But the industry hit a level where I think it’s a better idea to stop developing for the cutting edge, and start exploiting some of the untapped power that’s in any machine that’s five years old or younger. And I think that is the growth sector of the market. Otherwise we’re basically saying that PC gaming is about the graphics and nothing else, and I think that’s short-sighted.

What Microsoft is doing with their “Games for Windows” initiative is only highlighting the antiquated notion that limiting the audience for your title is a good thing somehow. Clearly the “cutting edge” audience has started to vanish. Hell, it’s even worse than that, because if you look at the sales numbers I’m not even sure the core audience is going to be around for the consoles for much longer. Maybe a better phrase would be “Core gaming is d0med.”

My girlfriend wants puzzles and brain teasers. She’s not going to go out and buy an xbox360, she goes to Barnes and Nobles and gets a $3 book. I want a flight sim and a 4X, I don’t get an xbox360, I get a $1500 desktop. Maybe you’re cash, time or patience strapped or have three kids and for whatever reason your lifestyle trumped your taste in games. And now that you’ve switched to console you can’t bear to be told that maybe we’re still quite happy enjoying our overpriced antiquated PC’s. But speaking for myself, I’m still having lots of fun. I’m glad you consollers are too.

And that’s the rub: I can put out that $3 book and make a tidy profit selling to a 10-20K audience. But the part of PC audience that’s buying a “gaming rig” always been at least an order of magnitude smaller than the console audience. There’s also more finicky, harder to market to, and much less reliable.

Yes, you’re having fun, but it’s high level fun that I can only read about. But I will play the games that run on my $700 laptop.