One new additional subclass per class! Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in </Pacino mode>
Been waiting for this update on the new DLC and patch. I even started another game to move it along a bit before it hits just so I can go into the DLC sooner rather than later since I knew it was end-game content. Excited to have this coming along, although it’s hitting at a point when I have the least amount of free time to spend gaming. Arg!
One thing I wish they’d do is just drop the level cap. XP seems to be fairly limited (i.e. once you complete quests and kill what you can kill) so it’s not that you have an endless supply, and there are plenty of ways to continue to improve your character/party beyond the current cap. I really dislike the lack of advancement in the late game, takes the fun out of it and makes me more eager to just finish up and start fresh.
You know a couple of years ago I made a pitch for the fact that games don’t really settle into their correct or final state until at least a year of patches and dlc. I was roundly criticized for that “shrieking” – There are good reasons to play a new release as rough as a diamond as it might be (like Fallout '76 which I am terribly tempted to run into).
But I thing a slight reiteration of my original off-criticized (here at least) point is: Good holy god games on release suck – it takes months for them to percolate to something resembling palatability --and the dlc chase just continues ad infinitum.
Pillars 2 is a weird example: I don’t recall it being buggy at the start. But good god these patches and dlcs --when do you decide to say --“Ok this game is finished --let’s play it”
Do you play from the beginning to end at the start? Sure if it works -then there isn’t just dlc but there are huge game changing patches.
– Take Pathfinder:Kingmaker – a living example of my thesis. And I was a backer of that game.
I am a soft touch for what I think I like to play. But man – we get burned LOt
Pillars was solid at launch, but Obsidian has added a lot of QoL changes, even additions, to the game.
There is no correct answer on the topic. Some games at launch will feel complete and be fairly bug-free, offering a good bang for paying full price. Others not so much. Gamers can make guesses based on the track records of particular pubs and devs, but there’s no guarantee there either.
Pillars and Odyssey are the only two games I’ve pre-purchased this year and that is part of a long trend on my part. Not sure if it’s age, an increasing frugality on my part with teenage kids to now support, or just a decline is new releases I just have to have day one.
To be fair (and Ty John) I played pillars a bunch at launch and never had any problems. Odyssey is so large a game I am not sure DLC really dent into it’s overall play. I am about level 32 in odyssey and I wouldn’t imagine a dlc being something I could run into atm.
Setting aside those two examples for a minute – Red Dead Redemption 2 was aa console only release. And my bet it was complete on release (or almost so).
I think it is now axiomatic that PC releases will start buggyish, incomplete, and filled with potential dlc’s. And I will dutifully suck it up and by games at launch and then wait for a year (or two) and wait for it to be the “Final” product.
I feel like I am 'shrieking" again but I will say in Pillars 2 defense I enjoyed that game at launch and saw no reason that it could not be finished as it was. And my experience with the dlc hasn’t lead me to believe the game got better, except for patches and QOL improvements.
I pretty much agree with this. The release of a game has become a way to continue funding the project to get all the planned content into it. Even though I backed it, I’ve only sparingly played POE 2; I’m not really hunkering down into it until all the DLCs are released. I just don’t have time to play a 50-80 hour game twice (or more) just to experience all the DLC released a year later.
I too have wondered why I don’t just wait to purchase the completed game a year after it’s release with a sizable discount. I keep coming back to a couple of reasons:
If we all did this, most of these games would never get made due to low sales.
I want to support developers like Owlcat and OBSIDIAN who make the kind of games that I love.
To be fair, you were criticized because you brought it up way too often, but I never thought you were wrong. I mean, factually you should wait to play any game, it will only get better with age! However, the caveat there is that only happens when it’s selling well and the developers have permission and/or resources to continue making it better. Like mentioned above, if no one buys games at launch, they’ll never really improve. So for all the times I’ve bought something at launch you enjoyed a year later, you’re welcome.
That said, Pillars 2 is the wrong thread for this discussion, as it has been very solid since and even previous to launch when we hammered away at the beta (as you yourself mention). It’s biggest crime was over powered skills/spells and the game’s higher difficulties being too easy. It was fully playable/enjoyable from the jump, though.
If you wanted to bring up waiting to play a game in the Kingmaker thread, I’d be completely on your side. That game is awesome, but it was rushed to launch (even after a 6 week delay) and needed a lot of love. Hell, I couldn’t even complete it, and I know I’m not alone. Thankfully, even that game has improved tremendously in just a few months, so I don’t think waiting a year there is required to enjoy it. I recently started a new game on the new 1.1 patch, so we’ll see how that goes.
But to your larger point, waiting to play a game until it’s been patched up and polished is obviously a great idea. It’s just not always feasible (i.e. games one is super excited about or wants to be part of the zeitgeist for) of course, and sometimes it just happens naturally (I have tons of games I wishlisted before they came out that I still haven’t picked up, and those games are now years old). I don’t think I’ve ever actively sat on a game I wanted to buy to play it much more than a month later, though I suppose if I was smart I’d have bought Pathfinder to support the developers and then waited to install it several months later. But, hey, hind sight. What can you do?
Hey I actually agree with all of Scott’s post. And actually I only think I held out for Fallout 4 to have survival mode (maybe 5 months?). I am in the middle of the Winter (Breath of Winter?) dlc in Pillars and it is pretty good. So yes I believe Pillars may be a bad example. Though in retrospect I do buy a game and then I see it has DLC’s planned and I shelve it for a few months so patches and dlcs can make it better. I definitely did it with Pillars until Breath of Winter (or whatever) dlc,
Kingmaker is tragic I definitely agree because it really is great until a certain point.
Warhammer 2 is a great example of the whole thing sorta done right. 4 factions to start with, and then the addition of 2 more (and some other leaders). What is fascinating about that game is that with every new faction the whole game changes and new mechanics are introduced. It is almost hard to imagine STARTING that game in the beginning with the complexity of factions now.
(and btw I still think powers/abilities are overpowered in Pillars. That game is hard to find a difficulty setting on).
I like it quite a lot. There isn’t any chance I’ll play this in my second play through because I did Wizard on my first, but I like the idea and it doesn’t strip or nerf the base class (I really hope they do something about the other Wizard sub classes). Need another level 3 spell? Blood Sac for X raw damage, now you have it, AND boosted power levels for a bit, which could be net gain more powerful than empower potentially if used right. Very cool. I think the drawbacks are bad but not unworkable, and I actually believe the idea that foes under half health are especially dangerous to you is really neat.
EDIT:
Looks like the patch notes are up and ALL the classes are detailed! Looking through it now.
I recorded a look at the new sub-classes, enjoy!
Thanks for the video, Scott!
The last Deadfire DLC hits tomorrow and reading its description might address one of my main complaints about the sequel: which was lack of an expansive dungeon crawl.
I’m off work until next Monday, so I’ll definitely be playing with the new subclasses and the build possibilities they present.
Well, Steam just flipped from releasing in approximately one hour to releasing in 14 hours. :(
It’s out - and here are the patch notes!
Probably just a Steam freak-out, it looks like it actually did launch on time.
Yup, it’s out on GOG.
I was looking at the DLC page on Steam for it, and since they’d graciously scheduled the download for 6am tomorrow morning for me, the page was reflecting that. Just d/l it.
Maelys the Monstrous is born, an evil dwarf Arcane Knight (Garrote pally + Blood Mage for self buffs and spamming flames of devotion with a great sword), probably my 15th toon for Deadfire. Crazy.
Is there a release date for switch? I’ve been waiting for that to get it.
Pumped for this DLC more than the previous two. This one, on paper, looks to be the type of gaming I was hoping for, but we’ll see how it comes together. Continuing my current game into it once they reach the appropriate level.