I was watching the video mainly to figure out if I would enjoy the game, so I did not really hold onto all the details. But he ran through various things that are more or less powerful in turn based. Things that have exact lengths in RTwP but are rounded off, sometimes into non-existence, in TB. If I remember correctly, I think he said penetration became an overly large consideration, but maybe that was in updates totally apart from the TB aspect.
Sorry I can’t be more helpful.
Bluddy
1827
I actually don’t have a specific opinion about PoE2. My experience is that when you give an option whether to play one way or another (RT or TB), there’s just no way to make those systems work the same way. Inevitably the result is some kind of cheesing technique: use this mode to take down this kind of foe because it’s much easier and the AI doesn’t know how to handle it; use the other mode against these other foes who use this different attack. I don’t think that occurs if you force the player to commit to one mode or another for the whole game though.
Well, the difference here (and with Pathfinder) is they shipped as Real Time With Pause, and were developed with that design philosophy from the start and only added turn-based in years later. So saying both modes will have had to make concessions makes little sense.
In fact, you are forced to choose one more or the other with Pillars of Eternity 2.
@FinnegansFather don’t forget that video you linked is very old, over a year so, and they have made several updates since so I would look for something a little newer to get a better sense for if there are still issues with things like penetration. I feel like those issues were addressed, but it’s been a long time since I looked into PoE2, honestly.
Bluddy
1829
Fair enough. Seemed from the discussion that there was a method to switch, which is where I have observed problems.
That’s for Pathfinder Kingmaker’s latest 2.1 beta, which only just introduced a brand new turn based mode (so again, RTwP is the original and only way to play until two days ago). That game may have some issues going into turn-based, but that’s why there is a beta.
You can. By starting a new game.
I love the game but I couldn’t stomach turn-based playthrough. Even after switching the difficulty to the lowest setting from the highest one I play already decided fights for dozens of minutes.
‘Rebalanced’ encounters or not, turn-based certainly added to the length of my game by a substantial amount if How Long to Beat is to be believed. I’d estimate it adds at minimum 10 hours and possibly as many as 20. I still enjoyed it, but it’s worth considering.
Syzygy
1834
It’s interesting that Wizards Crown had solved the question of what to do about turn based battles that take too long in the mid-1980s but that modern CRPGs still struggle with this problem. To be fair I guess both PoE2 and Kingmaker were developed without turn based combat, but it doesn’t seem it would be hard to create an auto combat resolve system.
Personally, I’d never view automatic combat resolution as a solution to anything. It’s an acknowledgment that a major component of your game is poor/unnecessary.
Does that include the Total War series?
Or sports games, for that matter.
That said, there is something to that in the context of an RPG. I don’t think that I’ve ever played one where I thought, “all of these enemy encounters are completely engaging and necessary.” Pillars II is probably better than most in that regard—especially compared to Pillars I and Pathfinder, for instance—but still has too many superfluous mobs.
I don’t play RTS games, but the analogy here would be if it moved your units for you and decided who to attack.
If having automatic combat makes a game better, there are too many encounters (which is probably true of most rpgs) or combat isn’t interesting/enjoyable/tactically demanding enough.
No, completely different animals. However, auto-combat in a party-based RPG defeats the purpose, in my mind.
I wonder. Dungeon Siege did something like that. I remember it being controversial, “the game playing itself” but I thought it was still fun.
Auto-resolve is not the same of course, and I don’t know that Total War is an inappropriate comparison. Basically you are saying I can’t be arsed to spend the time on this giant battle because I’m interested in something else. Nothing wrong with the battle system, just not right now.
It comes with an interesting choice too, as computer resolved results are not as favorable as what you could do yourself. I could see that working with a turn based RPG as long as the game design was balanced around it.
Dungeon Siege was something of a hybrid. I also liked it, but remember the criticisms. My big gripe with dungeon siege is that you could easily see every thing the game has to offer in one play through. I’d been expecting something more like an aRPG where you would play it again and again.
I’ve been debating picking up deadfire. Been a long time since I really enjoyed an rpg. Afraid I will bounce off this too.
In TW auto-resolve is there for already decided battles. Later games even prevent you from using auto-resolve in important places. Plus the RT battles are the meat of the game, if you don’t like them there’s little point in playing the game, you’re better off trying Paradox strategies. As it’s a strategy game where you might ignore some theaters of war or not caring about losses in a specific army. The equivalent in RPGs would be you getting a message “those guys are 3 levels lower than you, do you want us to go to looting the corpses part right now” or “those guys are 3 levels higher than you, maybe you want to flee/reload the game right now”.
Also maybe you’re thinking about Sacred game. It’s a Diablo clone with a skill/item passive bonus “everyone X levels lower than you in Y radius just freaking dies”.
I do agree that auto-resolve is a sign that you have a feature you probably don’t need. Even in strategy games, yes. Games like TW might have benefited from you being able to personally play out only specific battles and build up only specific provinces. All the 4X games fail the minute I want to set up city automation. All the RPGs fail when I’m looking at the encounter as a chore instead of interesting captivating puzzle.
That video is completely useless, isn’t it? He offers zero new information.
Unless I missed something.
Bateau
1845
Scrolled through quickly and I concur with your opinion. Just clickbait.
