Pillars of Eternity 2 switches genres for its latest update

#10

You and me both! I kickstarted PoE1 and started it when it released, but then I decided to wait for patch 1.04 and never got back around to it.

#11

I’m also pretty skeptical. Seems to me a combat system needs to be designed from the ground up to be turn-based or real time. How is Pillars of Eternity possibly going to compare to, say, Divinity Original Sin?

What comes to mind for me is Rebuild 3, the zombie survival game. You can play it with pausable continuous time, or in turn-based mode. But your characters end up wasting time in the turn-based mode that you would otherwise micromanage in continuous time. Basically, you sacrifice a ton of efficiency when you play in turn-based mode, because the game was obviously designed for continuous time.

But I’m also stuck in the rut of waiting to play Pillars 2 until I’ve finished Pillars 1. As if. It’s going to be even more unlikely that I’ll ever get through Pillars 1 if Pillars 2 turns into a solid turn-based RPG.

-Tom

#12

There are definitely some real questions about how some of the mechanics are balanced and will work. For instance, the way they balance heavy armor vs. light armor is the more protective the armor, the slower your recovery time after you perform an attack or use a skill. In turn based mode, what are they doing for this? My guess is slowing down movement speed and initiative, maybe more than that, but we just don’t know. It’s important they put this mode in beta and let people provide feedback (I started a thread for this very purpose on the official forums already).

However, there are more mechanics than not which always felt at home in a turn-based mode to me, stuff like casting time on long spells works in a cool way from the video we saw, where when you start casting a spell it’s moment when it fires off shows up in the initiative list. Crucially, all the mechanics like flanking, the status conditions you can have and inflict, weapon penetration values and what works vs. what is inefficient, all that will be a LOT more interesting when you can see it play out in turn-based mode than it ever was in real time.

I think Thursday it’s going to start off as just being a better way to play the game, and improve from there as players point out problem mechanics and encounters that need balancing/addressing. I know I will be one of those players.

#13

I’m another one that will definitely be watching how this turns out. I have gone from not interested to having my finger on the buy button depending on feedback.

#14

Yes, it’s obvious to everyone that just flipping a turn based switch isn’t going to work, everything would have to be re-balanced. Which they acknowledged, now we will just have to see how well they did with the first iteration.

I vastly prefer turn based (see TOEE for how to do it right) but I take what I can get. POE2 was already a pretty good game for me, as far as real time goes both it and Pathfinder Kingmaker did a better job than earlier iterations like Baldur’s Gate II and so on.

#15

Well…I just started this game again last weekend. Only got to the first town, don;t mind starting again!

#16

CohhCarnage was able to stream some of the turn-based mode for this earlier this morning.

This is the archive video, if you skip to 3:19:00 or just after the first battle starts.

Comments by me!

1 - You can still have the game paused and issue commands while paused. That caused some confusion as at first Cohh couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t attacking after clicking on a target. When he unpaused the game, the attack was initiated immediately. Probably going to want to re-do your auto-pause stuff, no reason to pause on combat start any longer (but I assume, still auto pause on some things like detecting a trap).

2 - Looks like you can break up your movement and action, such as move, attack, and move a little more.

3 - When his character attacked (with a bow) in melee range, she then pulled away to get distance (he should have of course, done that in a different order, but no matter). However, there was no attack of opportunity, and this game does feature them. In this case, the enemy hadn’t gone yet. Did they incorporate a D&D level of “flat footed” status for units that have not taken an action yet, maybe aren’t allowed to make attacks of opportunity (or whatever PoE calls them)?

4 - It seems super laggy. I’m not sure if that’s the stream or his PC or what, because sometimes it’s buttery smooth. Something to keep an eye on.

5 - Custom keys has been updated to include things like “End Turn” which defaults to the ENTER key but can be changed to whatever you want. Nice touch.

5b - Honestly, lots of nice little touches, from Battle Start messages when enemies engage or you come out of stealth to the very handy initiative bar.

image

6 - I think the auto-camera is going to be a hinderence here. It hasn’t happened yet, but the camera swaying around to follow the action is going to make ME mis-click at some point for sure. I think turning that off to have complete camera control is going to out weight the benefits of leaving it on (which is nice for exploration and non-combat).

Okay, that’s about all I can take with those lag spikes. I really hope those are on his end, because that’s terrible. Fingers crossed that’s now how the game plays tomorrow.

Slay the Spire
#17

Those aren’t lag spikes, those are Twitch Freezes©

#18

Good deal. They were super annoying!

#19

Oh, thanks god there is a fast mode where animations seem to be quicker and more snappy in general. Otherwise the game would turn into a slog in turn based mode.

#20

If this turns out to be Temple of Elemental good …. well, I’ll buy Josh Sawyer a coffee (he probably is too cool for a regular coffee) and be delighted!

#21

I will reply to myself - yes --I spent 8 hours playing Pillars 2 turn based. And I will say it is a different game. You get to see what is actually going on. You get to appreciate your abilities.

It is very slow. But I think well done.

#22

I spent 14 hours Pillars turn based. It is pretty fun. But it isn’t easy to figure out specs that are “good” or not from the real time with pause. Or as opposed to the rtwp. I have been playing a hunter with a rifle (“arquebus” of whatevs) and he DESTROYS stuff.

AC that was a “he” --my Hunter (a warrior/ranger concoction is a Male - I named him after you)

It isn’t Temple of Elemental Evil good – because those battles were largely set pieces. But it is almost that good.

Much slower. Get a huge group with a bunch of abilities/spells. More fun that way.

(I am beginning to think I am talking to air here, however.)

#23

I’m eyeballs deep in Divinity Original Sin 2 right now. Otherwise I’d probably be playing this.

#24

I think it’s still in beta, so enjoy (the outstanding) D:OS 2 and come back when the beta goes to 1.0 (which I assume will coincide with the console release).

#25

Oh its in beta for sure as you well know. Dexterity is so marginalized I can’t help but think they’ll do something about that. real time vs. turn based is almost --uh – dusk vs dawn? (as opposed to night and day)

#26

Yeah, I was tempted to go back to the game for turn-based play but seeing it listed as beta is a clear “you can wait” sign to me.

#27

D:OS 1 also suffered from the “not enough set pieces, too many trash mobs around every corner” issue. I don’t think level design was any better than OG Divine Divinity, which was a Diablo clone.

#28

@KristiGaines you named your character after me? So “Cockney sparrow” in other words? Well I feel honoured. I’m tempted to try this but I will wait until it is out of Beta. Divinity Original Sin 2 is one of my favourite turn based RPGs so I would definitely recommend that if you haven’t tried it already.

  • Alex
#29

Turn-based is a real thing. It is super good. But it is super slow, move combat animations up if you play it. It is a different game. And I think a better game TB.

So I will just edit my post. I played a lot of Pillars Deadfire: Turnbased and I regret it wasn’t an option to start. For two reasons.

One, I think it would have grabbed a lotta people that may have liked that choice.

Two, I think it is almost completely different game – much slower, you accent different things (for example armor is more important – and attack speed min/maxing isn’t really a thing)

A last comment. Pillars (real time with pause) can be literally played 90 percent (except for big bosses) on auto. Turn-based requires you to go steady one shot at a time. I am beginning to suspect that turn based mode makes the game better and they shoulda started with this.

Three, I think If I was going turn based in Pillars I would start a fresh party – no npc’s – and try to min max a bit. I am thinking of my party now and I may share.

Real time with pause pillars just seems like a nice challenge early on but … watching combat over and over isn’t so fun. Turn based is a bit easy now (even on “hard”) but it is interesting.

Finally that is three reasons.