Are you taking Cunning as your primary strategy, then? Should probably mark that (* works, I think).
Isn’t that what happened when I chose my aspect? I’ll admit that my reading over the character creation chapter may have been incorrect/ inaccurate.
EDIT: Oh, I see. I did misread that… hmm. Ok then.
Thomas Albertson
Cunning 2 / Patient 2
Greed 3, Generosity 2
Espionage 0, Knowledge 3
Sly 1 / Open 1
Cruelty 0, Courage 0
Cowardice 0, Endurance 1
Devious 3 / Insightful 3
Corruption 3, Nurture 2
Deceit 2, Honesty 0
Demon: That Which Hungers
Aspect
Ghost Form
Glory
Power
False Memories
Psychic Objects
That Which Hungers, known more informally as T-dub, subsists on the greed and desires of mortals. He delights in coaxing them to sin in order to achieve their desires while working to make those desires ever more ambitious, and if pure intentions become corrupted into something more sinister in the process, so much the better.
I had already picked the power and aspect, but was going to wait until
Craig posted to finalize. Think these work great together.Just a quick warning. Today and tomorrow are really pretty crammed for me. Hopefully I can respond tonight but it might be Sunday before I can really do more than think about this while driving.
María Romero Carvajal
Cunning 1 / Patient 1
Greed 1 Espionage 0 Generosity 0 Knowledge 3
Sly 2 Open 2
Cruelty 1 cowardice 2 Courage 3 Endurance 1
Devious 4 Insightful 3
Corruption 0 Deceit 3 Nurture 1 Honesty 1
Aspect: Glory
Power: Oracle
BTW, @malkav11 this power description you quoted:
And others in that block (like Dark Ritual, Oracle…) means it is indeed ok to mix strategies and not related tactics on rolls!
They’re in an aftermarket supplement and might just be for those powers. It’s really hard to say.
Ok, this is from the main rulebook, page 80:
You are right that it might be just power related, but I find it a weird limitation in the system where there are so many interesting combinations to show action and intent.
I think it makes little sense to limit the potential interactions, but they did things they way they did to show the most common. But let’s face it, the rules are rambly and not well organized.
At any rate, I’m certain Stolze, as a designer, would be quick to say not to let rules get in the way of a good game. If something makes sense just run with it.
So, my thinking that it’s meant to be limited to those particular pairings stems from a few things:
- There is an entire chapter discussing what each strategy and tactic involves and what combining them means/is used for. If you were meant to cross-combine, surely it would have been discussed there?
- Each strategy pair (virtuous/sinful) and underlying tactics have a focus - mental, physical, and social. To me, this argues against crosscombining them any more than you would generally use a physical stat with a mental skill in World of Darkness or similar.
- Non-Euclidean specifically lets you use the mental and social sinful strategies in contexts where you would normally use the physical one, because it’s physically embodying those things into the world in a way that doesn’t make sense without hellish intervention. If you could normally cross-combine those strategies with physical tactics, the aspect suddenly becomes way less useful.
And that would be why powers sometimes use combinations you wouldn’t normally - you’re invoking the forces of Hell, not the mundane world.
Maybe. All I am saying is that it would have taken up far too much space to cover every conceivable possibility, so perhaps they just focused on the most likely/common.
Regardless, this should have been addressed somewhere, in some form, but the rules are sloppy. They have a stream of consciousness feel to them. This quote (which supports your view) would have been a perfect spot to discuss this:
“In the game you frequently use a Sinister Tactic with a Virtuous Strategy or vice versa. Greed is usually Cunning, but sometimes it’s Patient; and you can be Sly with your Courage by fighting from a distance. See Chapter Four for details.”
It’s not that thick a book. They could have covered other combos in maybe another 10-15 pages. I don’t see that as being a big issue. Especially after they published No Soul Left Behind which is about twice as long. I agree that it should have been addressed, mind you.
Well, I decided to ask de designer (via email).
This is what he said:
So I guess that settles it :) . Related strategies and tactics except for very exceptional stuff (if ever).
Makes sense.
Cool. I was thinking of asking Stolze myself (he’s pretty approachable, in my experience) but hadn’t gotten around to it. And that does make sense. :)
Brad Stevens
Cunning 2 / Patient 2*
Greed 1, Generosity 2
Espionage 0, Knowledge 0
Sly 0 / Open 4
Cruelty 3, Courage 3
Cowardice 0, Endurance 3
Devious 3 / Insightful 1
Corruption 3, Nurture 0
Deceit 3, Honesty 0
Aspects
Flame-Wreathed (Devious)
When you turn this on, you’re covered in fire. That’s simple enough, isn’t it? You can describe the flames as you wish—guttering orange flickers, bright green jets, surging tendrils of gusting red—it all works the same way. Anything you hit gets hurt, and anyone dumb enough to hit you gets hurt. The only exception is other people who are Flame-Wreathed, or people who have some kind of fire immunity, but how often are you going to brawl someone like that?
Any time anyone hits you with a close attack, he slides a point of Courage away, except as described above. When you make hand-to-hand attacks, you can add your Devious to your Open Cruelty pool. If this produces a pool of more than ten dice, you are objectively awesome. Roll the engorged pool and enjoy your guaranteed success.
Note that the pool increase from being Flame-Wreathed is not a surprise bonus, a weapon bonus or any other kind of bonus. Effects that remove those sorts of bonuses do nothing against Flame-Wreathed.
Carapace (Sly)
This looks like Armor (see page 73 for its howling faces and swirling negative energy voids) but functions differently. The two powers are quite complementary, so if you want to really, really soak up punishment like nobody’s business, Armor + Carapace is the way to go. Just stay clear on which hideous disfgurement comes from the power (suppurating pustules? gnarled scales?) and which comes from the Aspect (parasitic demon fetuses that jump out of enlarged pores to martyr themselves on incoming bullets? blizzard of wind and hail obscuring you and forcing back attackers?).
When your Carapace is active, every physical attack against you has its Height reduced by a number equal to your Sly. If Height is reduced to zero or less, the attack misses.
Powers
That Hideous Strength (Cruelty)
Super-strength is simple to understand. You can lift, crush and uproot this, that and the other thing. But in an RPG, it can be hard to implement, especially if you want to be accurate about your physics. Can someone pick up a semi-trailer by the back axle without it snapping in half? If someone holds a main battle tank over his head, shouldn’t his feet get poked into the ground like fence posts?
Better Angels is not focused on Newtonian physics. Rules are provided for bludgeoning people with your bone-breaking thews. Any other feat of strength—pulling up trees, flipping over cars, throwing garbage dumpsters through cathedrals, punching out skyscrapers—is pitched to the GM’s judgment, within some simple guidelines.
Cruelty 1:
Combat Rules: +1 weapon bonus
Without a Roll, You Can: break handcuffs, tear phone books, bend steel bars.
With a Rolled Set, You Can: lift a car over your head, kick through a steel door.
Cruelty 2-3:
Combat Rules: +2 weapon bonus
Without a Roll, You Can: tear a half-inch steel plate, uproot a parking meter.
With a Rolled Set, You Can: jump through a brick wall, break a foot-thick living tree in half.
Cruelty 4-5:
Combat Rules: +3 weapon bonus
Without a Roll, You Can: tip a locomotive engine onto its side, throw a car engine a city block.
With a Rolled Set, You Can: collapse one corner of a skyscraper with your bare hands.
Those weapon bonuses come into play whenever you punch someone or throw something at him. If you’re hitting someone with an object that would normally give a +1 weapon bonus or more, your weapon bonus rises by a single point until it maxes out at +3. Note that it doesn’t matter whether you’re throwing a full beer keg at someone or a single peach pit. We just assume the beer keg is slower and easier to dodge, while that peach pit can do some hellish damage at high speed.
Body Control
Body Control (Deceit)
With this power, people do as they are told. It doesn’t change people’s emotions or opinions or decisions, but it does very effectively hijack control of their bodies. You can force them into any perverse or dangerous actions that you desire. The power doesn’t make people forget or misperceive or misremember things, though. It’s only for concrete movements.
To use Body Control, you need to make eye contact and issue a command. (It’s especially fun if you preface this, or follow it with either “My will is stronger than yours! You must obey!” or just “Sleeeep!”) The target doesn’t have to understand the order, but he does have to hear it, so you can use any language you want. You can only target one person at a time.
Roll Devious Deceit. Your Height determines how many words long your command can be. The GM should interpret it in the most straightforward and obvious way. Characters can choose to defy a command, doing nothing instead. Doing so costs a point of Nurture. The Nurture point vanishes, it does not slide. The point comes from Insightful if Nurture is at zero. Characters who have run out of both Nurture and Insightful can still disobey, but doing so leaves them unable to act for the remainder of the scene. Commands that would take more than one scene to complete are begun but are abandoned when the scene ends.
Relevant rules posted for future reference
Note: The Evil Eye replaced by Body Control after quick foruming
Remind me not to piss you off…
I figured we needed some muscle. :P
Yeah, we totally did. I just hope you have it covered, because if anything can outmuscle you, the rest of us are in for a world of hurt.
You’re going to love angels. :)
Yeaahhhhhh, I didn’t want to make Mr. Guided lose confidence, but we are all definitely in for a world of hurt. :D