Poor fool or foolish martyr?

Wouldn’t it be nice if all those non-violent protestors flocking to the Palestinian side would imbue some of that non-violent philosophy on the Palestinians? Or haven’t they noticed that the side they’re defending blows up busloads of Israeli civilians as often as they can.

Could someone tell me why it is that the Palestinians have never bothered trying the non-violent, Gandhi path toward their own state? It’s almost absurd to think how easily it would work once they stop blowing up civilians and start staging sit-ins. Instead of CNN showing Jewish rabbis picking up the nickel-sized body parts of the latest bomb victims, they’d show water hoses and dogs being unleashed on unarmed and non-resisting protestors. Do they realize what kind of pressure the US and Israel would be under if they lost the moral high ground on this issue? I’d guarantee that there’d be an internationally-recognized Palestinian state within five years if they actually wholeheartedly embraced non-violence. Hell, non-violence worked wonders for the Indians and the Civil Rights movement. Didn’t anybody over there read about that?

Is it some kind of macho Islam thing, that they have to prove they can beat the Jews? That they’re trying to turn around their disastrous record of military conflict against the West? Ever since Saladin died, they’ve been pretty much on the losing end of the stick.

Now, I do think that Israel has got to stop building settlements in the occupied territories. I think it was Friedman who suggested that the US withold $100 million in aid for each new settlement the Israeli’s put up. I’m for that. But the Palestinians have got to stop using suicide bomb attacks on Israeli citizens. Until that happens, they’re going to be cast in the wrong on this issue. They are not going to build any kind of sympathy in the US, save for these foolish “human shields” like this American girl, dead due to the fact that she tried to stop a bulldozer with her body.

But I gotta wonder… do these “human shields” also put themselves on Jerusalem buses as willingly as they stand in front of Israeli bulldozers? And without any nervous thoughts about the guy in the bulky coat coming on board?

As discussed in the other threads, most of the human shields have the intelligence of everyday, ordinary, kevlar shields. Except kevlar has an excuse for being dull as a used and rusted Swiss-Army suicide knife.

Heh, so in other words, today’s “human shields” are pretty much like The Children’s Crusade. Didn’t they study that in school and learn just what happened to all those kids who foolishly went off to the Holy Land thinking naive idealism was going to win the day?

My, aren’t we myopic.

Yes, the Palestinian terrorists are vile creatures who deserve a special place in Hell.

However, the Israelis have committed plenty of artrocities in all of this as well. Many innocent Palestinians – including kids – killed during operations against Hamas and others, for instance. And then there’s the true stories coming out now about how the Arabs in the Israeli territory were really treated in the late 40s/50s. And the settlements today in Palestinian territory which are unnecessary and are just asking for trouble. And much more.

But to call Israel on its own artocities is to be branded antisemetic.

The USA should continue to assist Isreal in its defense. But it should also insist that Isreal behave in a civilized manner as it addresses the Palestinian problem. The current methodology simply escalates the violence.

Except that the US (in particular it’s media) has never, ever cared about the Palestine issue that much, from what I can see.
Even now, Israel doesn’t have a moral high ground from the perspective of Sweden. What they do have, is the support of the US.
But yes, I’d prefer it if the Palestinians stopped responding to terror with terror.
The Western world seem quite involved in that conflict, considering that it pretty much is between to terrorist states. Though Palestine isn’t even a state.
And the George Bush demands on Palestine (that “Palestine must become Sweden” BBC article that Kalle dug up) are just idiotic.

It was a very brave thing that woman did, and I really prefer those trying to change the world by protesting and risking to die for their beliefs, than those who kill others, then die, then get avenged ad nauseum, for their beliefs.

Umm, you’ve got that backwards.

The Palestinians aren’t responding. They’re initiating.

Umm, you’ve got that backwards.

The Palestinians aren’t responding. They’re initiating.[/quote]
Umm, Jakob, your knowledge of history doesn’t go back as far as to 1948, I guess?

Not to justify the tactics of militant Palestinians at all – those who kill innocents to further their cause are vile and inhuman. But the fact is that Israeli behavior has been despicable as well. From forcing arabs out in 1948-1952 (which was NOT supposed to be part of the founding of Israel) and not allowing them to return, to their military actions that kill, hurt, or make homeless Palestinians. (Is it not terrorism if you do it with an AH-64 Apache?)

Both sides are acting like primitives.

I say tomato… and no one ever says to-mah-toe, but lets pretend they do :)

The real problem, and part of the reason that the Palestinians don’t do a non-violent demonstration, is that the hard line Palestinian view has too much of a hold on Hamas and parts of the PLO. To wit: drive the Jews in to the sea. Now, to be fair, with the recent election of the Isreal’s government, the exact same statement, interposing Jews with Arabs, could be said about Sharon and Co.

The solution? You could be cynical and say that a several kiloton nuke, placed on the dome of the rock, would make it so neither side could have the holy city and surrounding area. You could try walling both sides off, having defined borders, and allowing no one to cross, which would last as long as it took for Hamas to get some SAMs and shell a town.

The worst part is, that despite their respective government’s hate for each other, each side has become economically dependent on the other. Palestine, mostly due to the fact that tanks drive through areas on a regular basis, has no economy. The resident of the occupied areas make a living by working in Isreal, which relies heavily on the cheap labor.

I don’t know a solution. I don’t even think one is possible under the current administration: the PLO, Isreal, or the USA’s.

I do have to say nothing is black and white. Both sides were fighting, killing, and claiming territory in 1948…Israel was just the side that was more successful.

If nukes glassed the entire holy area, the Arabs and Jews would fight over who gets rights to the steaming pit. Hating each other is part of their culture… or so it seems.

Here she is teaching Palestinean children the proper way to burn an American flag. Granted, it’s not something she deserves to be bulldozed for. If she was feeling really brave, though, she could have torched the French flag, an act which, as of February, is now illegal. If she’d used up all her matches on American flags, she could have instead had the children sing the the French national anthem while she booed - also now a criminal offense. Who’s the crazy John Ashcroft of France?

"From forcing arabs out in 1948-1952 (which was NOT supposed to be part of the founding of Israel) and not allowing them to return, to their military actions that kill, hurt, or make homeless Palestinians. "

That wouldn’t have anything to do with all the Arab states surrounding Israel that wanted to wipe it off the face of the earth since the day its was created(and they still mostly do, they just know they don’t have the military to do so).

A likely culprit.
Isn’t it illegal to burn the American flag? I’m pretty sure it’s illegal over here.

Different strokes for different folks. It’s a cultural thing.

Nope, though politicians try to pass flag protection laws once in a while. Burning a flag is expressive conduct, so it is protected as free speech under the First Amendment. It would require a Constitutional Amendment to prevent it.

Interesting page on flag burning: http://www.esquilax.com/flag/

Different strokes for different folks. It’s a cultural thing.[/quote]

The first Intifada was disqualified for stone-throwing, I’d guess.

I apologize most humbly for not identifying myself in the above post.

EDIT:

Nope, though politicians try to pass flag protection laws once in a while. Burning a flag is expressive conduct, so it is protected as free speech under the First Amendment. It would require a Constitutional Amendment to prevent it.

Interesting page on flag burning: http://www.esquilax.com/flag/[/quote]

Hmm. Seems like your flag is better protected by law over here, then. :)

Saying it’s cowardly to lay down in front of a bulldozer is pretty funny.

Not to mention the fact that Palestinians would’ve had a state to live in in 1948 if the Arab states had not rejected the UN agreement that formed both an Israeli and Palestinian state. Long before Israel ever militarily occupied the proposed Palestinian state (Gaza Strip and West Bank), it was Jordan and Egypt that were occupying it, keeping the Palestinians homeless so they could fan the flames that, they thought, would destroy Israel entirely.