The implication of this story seems to be that the people who launched the missile (the military) did not have eyes on the target when they launched, and that the people who had eyes on the target (the CIA) did not know that the military had decided to strike.
It’s hard to be sure, the report is so vague, probably because it is being made vague by the various government sources. But if so, this arrangement seems insane.
Timex
1743
Nah, I’m pretty sure the drone operators would have had a live feed from the drone. Especially since the hellfire they launched would have been laser guided. I don’t believe they have a hellfire which can be programmed to hit gps coordinates from bvr. They generally use other kinds of bombs for that. CNN has been getting confused by the term “over the horizon” that the Biden DoD had been recently using. In this context, OTH just means drones launched from outside the region, but CNN has been acting like it means no one saw the target.
In this case, they would have had a feed from the drone, as well as likely satellite imagery.
Calelari
1744
Point of order - there is no technical or operational reason the drone itself has to be painting the target.
(Although it is likely it did.)
Timex
1745
That’s true, but if the drone itself wasn’t, something else would have been lazing it. Someone would have had direct line of sight, and have been participating in the strike.
It is possible I suppose that the info about the target came in nearly simultaneously with the launch, and there simply wasn’t enough time for it to get from the originator to the weapons controllers for them to safely abort. No matter how you slice it though it’s not good.
The fact that they were watching him for eight hours raises some serious questions. No one forwarded an address for verification, no one checked the car or the numberplate?
It sounds like a Mickey Mouse operation. If that’s how they handle it in downtown Kabul, recently Little America, can you imagine how badly they’re getting it wrong in Waziristan?
Here’s the original centcom quote:
“Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material,” U.S. Central Command officials said.
Source
It just stinks to high heaven. First they kill seven kids on a hunch, then instead of owning their mistake, they start lying about it. That’s two fuck-ups for the price of one.
That really points to some serious systemic problems.
Strollen
1748
Meanwhile back in Kabul.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/19/afghanistan-taliban-fighters/
“All of my men, they love jihad and fighting,” he said. “So when they came to Kabul they didn’t feel comfortable. There isn’t any fighting here anymore.”
Just months ago, the unit was staging attacks on government outposts and convoys. Now the fighters are standing at checkpoints, searching cars and inspecting vehicle registrations.
“Many of my fighters are worried that they missed their chance at martyrdom in the war,” Nifiz said. “I tell them they need to relax. They still have a chance to become martyrs. But this adjustment will take time.”
RichVR
1749
I agree. They should be martyrs. Every damned one of them.
ShivaX
1750
If they’re serious about it, they can invade Iran.
This is one of the things some folks don’t quite get–these jihadists are less committed to religion than they are to simply banditry and traditional raiding and other warlord-army sorts of things. Even without whatever brand of religion they spout they’d find a way to keep the thuggery going, as that’s pretty much all they know. Peace is anathema really, because, well, that means you actually have to do something productive, and most of these chuckleheads have zero clue how to do that. And they don’t want to do the things they know, like farming or whatever, so they’ll find some way to keep shooting stuff and living like the Forty Thieves or whatever.
Interesting if short Twitter thread on the persistence of civilian casualties in drone strikes: https://twitter.com/LarryLewis_/status/1440129863894151169
Tortilla
1755
Hard to make fun of them when far too many Americans think executions are a reasonable crime deterrent that the criminal justice systems should employ.
Timex
1756
I think there’s room to think that capital punishment has a place in a justice system, while also thinking that permanent maiming of a person for petty crimes is overkill.
rrmorton
1757
Wait, “overkill” is the one you let live? :)
It really depends on what you are applying it to.
One of the big problems with Capital Punishment, and with Hand Removal, is that once you enact your punishment, there is no going back.
Technically, you can’t go back from putting someone in jail for 20 years, but with jail time, there is a chance of getting out before you serve the full 20 if someone realizes that there is a problem.
In the Case of Capital Punishment in the US, we do seem to use it only in the most extreme cases (although almost always on minority groups) and a lot of states have done away with it. If we started to remove heads or hands-on relatively minor offenses… that would be an issue.
I assume the Taliban will use both the removal of hands and capital punishment, far more frequently than the US.
If I had a choice of losing a hand, or 10 years in jail, I’m not sure which I’d choose.
It depends on where you are doing the time, and whether you can get out early.
If it’s Denmark, I’m doing 10 years, no questions asked. Or Norway, or Sweden. Or Germany, or the Netherlands.
Maybe even in the US, if I’m innocent because I know my family will do everything possible to get me out of jail. There are appeals and good behavior things after all.
But once you lose that hand, that’s that.
And let me tell you, having to help my daughter these last 2 weeks with a broken arm, I do not want to lose the use of my hand.
rrmorton
1761
If the conversation has now turned to the subject of “do you want to keep your hand?” then my answer is yes.
