But you didn’t list:

  • Can’t say “gay” or “pussy” pejoratively without some 4-alarm uproar from the PC crowd
  • Keep hearing about guys dressing up as ladies and using the restroom with my wife and daughter
  • Never know when another terrorist attack will be splashed across the media and the President will talk about healing and working with allies instead of just putting a boot up a butt
  • Have to worry that my daughter will have sex, because all these free abortions and birth control give her no proper respect for her body

Dude…

I saw a fucking terrifying ad on local TV, and it just felt like some sort of dystopian parody.

The ad had 2 human workers complaining about their backs and arms hurting, and then it said. Are your employees tired and having difficulty keeping up with your workload? Try AAA Acme Automation services! And I shit you not the ad then showed some arm robot things packing boxes as the workers were doing, without complaining.

That’s only dystopian because we think full-out work-for-hire capitalism is the greatest system ever. Another person might look at that and say, “Hooray, those folks don’t have to break their backs to get those boxes packed anymore!”

We really need to find a way to have a society that stops glorifying doing what you must to get paid and starts encouraging and supporting people to do what they want and be happy. The factory worker is an aberration, not the model for how the economy prospers. It’s a concept that was created to turn people into machines. Let’s make machines that do it, then turn people back into people. If we don’t embrace the idea that successful ideas owe a big chunk of their success to the society that surrounds them and make sure that society gets a commensurate cut of the success, we are headed for another French Revolution.

Wait, I thought unemployment was close to 40%.

Sure, that would be nice, but like I said already, there’s going to be a lot of lives ruined and angry people as we go from the here and now to robot utopia.

I mean, it was only horrifying because it resembled this simpsons gag.

Not only that, but that concentrating capital into as few hands as possible in the name of “efficiency” (aka more rents being extracted by capital holders) is the Holy Grail of economics.

How toiling away in some shit job for 40 years and hope in the hopes that you retire at the right point in the increasingly volatile business cycle so that whatever meager savings you stocked away aren’t horrifically devalued when you have to start living off of them…how that is the New American Dream is fucking beyond me.

Well, really, it’s an indictment of the entirety of US governance and electoral dysfunction since oh January 1980 or so.

I continue to move more and more toward the realization that Bill Clinton is the worst thing to ever happen to the Democratic Party and the mainstream American left.

Right, let’s return to the good old pre-industrial days of serfs, slaves, and guilds.

Not that I’m an anarchist but this is a fun read.

http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm

That said, would anybody (or at least many people) do things like medicine or construction up to the necessary standards if there were not external forces coercing it?

People would still work for more money, but they would do it at a wage that was actually worth it, not just at a wage they can accept because their only other choice is to starve. The point isn’t to do away with all forms of compensation and contractual obligation, it’s to do away with a work-or-die system that thinks the noblest thing a man can do is break his back for a rich man’s table scraps. Pure capitalism leads to slavery, because it’s always better to become a slave than to starve, and market forces are fundamentally Darwinian. It’s the tragedy of the commons, except that the folks who bred more sheep than their share are living like kings, while the folks whose sheep got squeezed out settle for tending the flock to get by day-to-day.

I’m not even sure what to make of this statement other than to point out that it both has nothing to do with what I said, and appears to lack any understanding of what serfs or guilds were. Rather than rant about that appearance, I’ll just invite you to explain your comment in more detail, and instead respond with some clarification of my own point:

We tried pure capitalism. It was awesome while there were places to conquer and pillage, but as that got harder and harder, it led to the Roman Empire, which became corrupt, began manipulating the economy to serve the uber-wealthy elite, and eventually collapsed and mostly flattened the economy in (most of) the West. We tried pure capitalism again. It was awesome while there were places to conquer and pillage, but as that harder and harder, it led to Monarchy, which became corrupt, directly manipulated the economy to create an uber-wealthy elite, and led to the French Revolution, which beheaded a significant fraction of the wealthiest people in the world and redistributed their wealth (to some). We tried another spin on pure capitalism: industrial democracy. It was great as long as there were new ways to reduce household labor, new natural resources to exploit, and ever-faster ways to transport goods around the world, but as those things became harder and harder to come by, it stagnated and led to two World Wars, which destroyed a significant portion of the wealth of the world. We fought a long ideological war over whether it made sense to try capitalism again. In the end we settled on it again, because it’s really great while there are ever-better ways of saving labor and improving communication through computers and the internet, but as that got harder and harder, it led to the rise of Kleptocracy, which is fundamentally corrupt, directly manipulates the economy to create an uber-wealthy elite, and is pushing us to yet another disconnect where the masses will have no recourse but violence to reset the economy. Maybe, instead of violence, this time we can reset by realizing that property rights don’t entitle you to profit from suffering, bankrolling a great idea doesn’t require an aristocrat with a pile of ready cash and doesn’t need to create new ones, and the American dream isn’t about owning the biggest yacht or Goopiest Egg, it’s about be mostly happy with who you’re with, where you live, what you do, and how you are paid.

Thomas Frank certainly agrees with you!

I’ve loved this essay since I first read it 25 years ago, and I’d be lying if I didn’t admit it had a huge effect on me as a young man. So many good bits:

Liberals say we should end employment discrimination. I say we should end employment. Conservatives support right-to-work laws. Following Karl Marx’s wayward son-in-law Paul Lafargue I support the right to be lazy. Leftists favor full employment. Like the surrealists – except that I’m not kidding – I favor full unemployment. Trotskyists agitate for permanent revolution. I agitate for permanent revelry. But if all the ideologues (as they do) advocate work – and not only because they plan to make other people do theirs – they are strangely reluctant to say so. They will carry on endlessly about wages, hours, working conditions, exploitation, productivity, profitability. They’ll gladly talk about anything but work itself. These experts who offer to do our thinking for us rarely share their conclusions about work, for all its saliency in the lives of all of us. Among themselves they quibble over the details. Unions and management agree that we ought to sell the time of our lives in exchange for survival, although they haggle over the price. Marxists think we should be bossed by bureaucrats. Libertarians think we should be bossed by businessmen. Feminists don’t care which form bossing takes so long as the bosses are women. Clearly these ideology-mongers have serious differences over how to divvy up the spoils of power. Just as clearly, none of them have any objection to power as such and all of them want to keep us working.

You may be wondering if I’m joking or serious. I’m joking and serious. To be ludic is not to be ludicrous…

The alternative to work isn’t just idleness. To be ludic is not to be quaaludic…

Hah!

… A worker is a part-time slave. The boss says when to show up, when to leave, and what to do in the meantime. He tells you how much work to do and how fast. He is free to carry his control to humiliating extremes, regulating, if he feels like it, the clothes you wear or how often you go to the bathroom. With a few exceptions he can fire you for any reason, or no reason. He has you spied on by snitches and supervisors, he amasses a dossier on every employee. Talking back is called “insubordination,” just as if a worker is a naughty child, and it not only gets you fired, it disqualifies you for unemployment compensation…

…Let’s pretend for a moment that work doesn’t turn people into stultified submissives. Let’s pretend, in defiance of any plausible psychology and the ideology of its boosters, that it has no effect on the formation of character. And let’s pretend that work isn’t as boring and tiring and humiliating as we all know it really is. Even then, work would still make a mockery of all humanistic and democratic aspirations, just because it usurps so much of our time. Socrates said that manual laborers make bad friends and bad citizens because they have no time to fulfill the responsibilities of friendship and citizenship. He was right. Because of work, no matter what we do we keep looking at out watches. The only thing “free” about so-called free time is that it doesn’t cost the boss anything. Free time is mostly devoted to getting ready for work, going to work, returning from work, and recovering from work.

Just wanted to say I’m enjoying your commentary.

It has entirely to do with your seeming assertion that factories were responsible for turning people into machines, when in point of reality people have been forced into machine-like roles since before machines even existed. Turning “people back into people” implies returning to the mass labor systems that existed before factories.

Gallup’s weekly update to their Presidential job approval rating chart is up.

The good news for Trump, if you can call it that: his approval rating has been holding steady the last ten days.

The bad news: that approval rating is 42%, the all-time low for a new President, etc. etc.

The really bad news: his _dis_approval rating has been climbing, It’s now 54%. America is making up its mind, and not in Trump’s favor.

I expect we’re going to see 40% Trump approval and 52% roughly disapproval his entire four years and nothing he does will move that needle.

I think we’re that divided and hardened as a society. Of the 52% disapproval, my guess is 40% would disapprove of any Republican even if they started acting like Bernie Sanders.

I just don’t see a good long-term ending, Trump may get ousted in 2020, but then all the fear will be on the other side (with less reason, they’ll still have the Senate probably unless the Dems gerrymander back hard, which at this point I think they should)

[quote=“Alstein, post:2789, topic:126890, full:true”]
I expect we’re going to see 40% Trump approval and 52% roughly disapproval his entire four years and nothing he does will move that needle.[/quote]

It’s also within the range of people claiming that the poll is undersampling Trump supporters, based on how badly they did in a number of states regarding the election. It’s a valid argument (not by 10%+ though) and very hard to argue against given the pre-election poll failure, so I don’t see these approval numbers hurting Trump at all with his political capital.

[quote=“Zylon, post:2787, topic:126890”]
your seeming assertion that factories were responsible for turning people into machines, when in point of reality people have been forced into machine-like roles since before machines even existed. [/quote]

I asserted that factories existed so that humans could do machine-like tasks to mass-produce stuff and that we now have machines for those things so it’s time to discard the crappy, unnatural factory style of work.

My whole point was about small tribal communities from much longer ago than the medieval period, which was also a blip in our development, so this doesn’t follow from my point at all. It also doesn’t follow because I’m not asking us to smash the machines, but to use them to benefit everyone and remove the distortion caused by a need to work for vital necessities.

HuffPo has a story right now that says Trump called retired Lt General Mike Flynn at 3AM to ask him whether or not the US dollar was strong. When Flynn told Trump he should ask someone else, Trump got irate.

The fuck?

He should have asked DeVos, she probably wouldn’t annoy Trump by defering to someone more experienced when asked about something she isn’t necessarily qualified to answer.