3277

Right. There is no state income tax in Florida.

3278

The states with a sales tax but no income tax (Washington state, Texas and I gather Florida and others?) are the least progressive with regard to their tax burden, and hardest on low-income people.
I’m so glad Oregon has always resisted getting a general sales tax foisted on us. Eff that BS in the ear.

3279

income only states get hit pretty hard during economic struggles, we don’t benefit from those traveling through the states, wind up paying other state’s sales taxes and any benefit we used to have with big ticket items being purchased here instead of our neighbors have been killed by the neighboring states changing their laws. Our income tax is also very flat, as in not a lot of relief for anyone once they make any money at all.

We’d be better off if they lowered the Income Tax and made up that difference with a sales tax. I am a lot more concerned about the freaking toll idea they’ve come up with.

3280

I’ve never understood how the state of say, Florida, pays for everything on a sales tax only, with a 6% base and not that much more locally. Combined rate in Tampa is 7% as an example.

Here in NC I pay 5.75% of JUST state tax. That doesn’t even count that I also pay 4.75% in just state sales tax, plus my local county/city tax giving me an effective 7.25% sales tax burden.

Are there really that many people in Florida buying goods that they make up the difference?

3281

Presumably they also make a rather significant portion from the (higher) taxes on many of the tourism related industries. Hotels, rental cars, etc have a higher rate assessed, and Florida has several of the prime tourist locations nationally, as well as a large segment of ‘seasonal residents’ that would bolster the take.

I do not know what the net effect is though, accounting wise.

3282

It’s pretty well known that Florida uses a sales tax so tourists pay our bills. It’s pretty nice as a resident, even if it is depressingly regressive.

The state doesn’t have massive debt like some do (probably due to mostly fiscal conservatives running the show for a while now). Unfortunately we were also one of the states that didn’t expand medicaid. Our douchebag governor actually told the legislature to do it (it was just before an election year for him) but the legislature is a bunch of worse douchebags.

Anyways, it may be a combination of things, but mostly I think our books are good because of the tourists.

3283

I’m jealous, but also not. I’ve seen the crowds and tourists there. The thing is, our state keeps tossing around going sales tax only (similar to other states where the state house has a republican majority.) I just don’t see how that is going to pay for everything without an enormous sales tax burden.

3284

Here in the socialist hellhole of Minnesota we have balanced books. We also have a somewhat high income tax and a general sales tax on everything but “essentials” - food and clothing, primarily.

Then again, our government actually provides services (socialist hellhole, remember). It ain’t perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than for instance Michigan, which can’t even maintain their damn roads.

3285

Orlando is second only to Las Vegas in number of hotel rooms. Over 120,000 at last count. Florida is 3rd behind Nevada and New York in total number of hotel rooms throughout the state, and I’m pretty sure that DOESN’T include vacation home rentals which is another area in which Florida is a Top 5 state.

What all that adds up to is a windfall of tourist-only taxation. The counties in Florida with the most hotel rooms and beach rentals all have hospitality tax rates of 10%-13%. That is a metric crapton of income that many states can’t match even when you combine their income tax and hospitality tax incomes. I also imagine most of the desirable counties to live in in Florida have decently high property tax rates as well to benefit their local infrastructure. So yeah, all that income combined means no need for an actual income tax.

3286

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I thought all states had to balance their budgets.

Comparing states, NH doesn’t have an income tax or a sales tax. But our property taxes are sky high (and registering cars is damn expensive too.)

3287

Theoretically, but they can also sell bonds to cover shortfalls.

3288

I agree that our income tax should be reformed and made more progressive, no question (it should have more than two brackets and the taxable income minimum should be raised), and we need another source of revenue like the recently-defeated Measure 97 (which the fatcats cleverly called “a tax on sales” to scare the yahoos into thinking it was a general sales tax) would have been. One thing we could get rid of is the idiot Oregon income tax “kicker.” That money should go into a rainy day fund with specific conditions determining when it could be accessed (like “unemployment rate has to reach X” or something), instead of feeding the fires of an economy that’s already going full bore, which is what it does now.
The argument that people from out of state get off scot free due to our lack of a sales tax has never been very convincing to me–the money raised from them is paltry compared to the regressive tax burden it imposes on lower income people that live in the state. The proponents are always saying “it won’t tax necessities” which is rank poppycock. Last time I checked soap and toothpaste and toilet paper and shampoo and clothes are necessities, and those are never exempted in the plans I’ve seen. Also, conveniently for upper income people, services like landscaping and house cleaning and legal services are never taxed–I wonder why that is? The real object of general sales taxes is always to reduce taxes on the prosperous at the expense of those less so.

3289

As far as I know that is true. However, I know California has massive unfunded liabilities (in pensions mostly) that seem to hang in the air like the federal deficit.

Here in California we have sales taxes (currently in my area around 9% +/-), we have property taxes and we have the state income taxes.

We also have a state legislature that loves spending every dime they can find.

3290

[quote=“Papageno, post:3288, topic:126890, full:true”]
I agree that our income tax should be reformed and made more progressive, no question (it should have more than two brackets and the taxable income minimum should be raised), [/quote]

Yeah it’s pretty much a flat tax here with a tiny, tiny exception for those who basically don’t work full time…

97 was badly handled. It taxed high cost industries at the same rate as low cost industries. Some healthy business operate on small margins, and that’s okay. They aren’t high profit generating businesses but they still have profit. I get mad like everyone else to see companies hide their profits, not pay taxes and then bitch about not having skilled workers, but this was not a well formed plan it all… and it reached for 6B when we needed 2B and what did they wind up with when it didn’t pass… a shortfall.

For some reason we’re using this to hold our reps accountable. I would prefer to have a rainy day fun too to get us through the rough years, but in order for that to work, you actually have to have some measure or trust in the government to do that. The trust isn’t there thus Trump was set upon the world.

[quote]
The argument that people from out of state get off scot free due to our lack of a sales tax has never been very convincing to me–the money raised from them is paltry compared to the regressive tax burden it imposes on lower income people that live in the state. The proponents are always saying “it won’t tax necessities” which is rank poppycock. [/quote]

It’s not a made up argument. A sales tax can hit not only the groups out of state but the groups skating around the system, the ones that getting cash under the table, don’t file for income taxes, etc. If you exclude food, clothing and a few other groups from the tax, you’re not hitting the poor as much as you think. Unless the poor suddenly started buying houses, boats, ATV, and new cars. It hits people more at the prime of their earning than it does the elderly, who are not buying a lot of things anymore, or the poor who don’t often buy high ticketed items.

I am having landscaping down. They have to buy soil and seed and materials for the irrigation system… all of which they contractor would pay a sales tax on. A 2-3% sales tax while dropping our income tax the same amount might cause toothpaste to go up a few cents but a more steady income in the state is more likely to bolster social programs the poor use most.

I’m sure I won’t convince you here that benefits of a sales tax, and there’s plenty of data on it, but I will shoot down the idea 100% of the time when they bring a sales tax to the table in addition to the high income tax we have today.

3291

California has budget surpluses in recent years, and a big part of which goes to rainy funds. I don’t know what’s the number now, but we were close to $4.5 billion of rainy fund at the last budget. Of course most of it will be decimated if ACA is repealed or the federal funds for Medicaid expansion are affected. Still that’s another debate.

Pensions are a huge issue and a drag on economies of several cities here, but on the state level, I think the pensions are about 65% funded, and that number goes up and down based on the market conditions (it actually may be higher than 65% now, since I heard that number last year). In any case that’s a long term issue, and annual pension payments are somewhat manageable. Long term, almost everyone recognizes that some change has to be made in the pension and contribution model, but of course the liabilities has to be met, and existing benefits can’t change.

In any case, CA is one of the states in US, with a budget surplus and a rainy fund in billions. They are also using part of the budget surplus to pay down the debt. And the social and welfare programs are still being expanded.

I actually voted for four tax increases last year :) - Proposition 51?? ($9 billion bond for K-12, charter schools and community colleges), sales tax increase for the pathetic roads here in our county, property tax increase for our high school district, and another one for affordable housing. Gov Brown by the way was against that $9 billion bond.

3292

I have landscaping done as well (well, “landscaping” sounds pretty fancy when all it really is is getting my lawn mowed every couple of weeks) and get trees and bushes pruned occasionally, so I’d be paying any tax on services as well (or paying the sales taxes indirectly as you say). Yes, a sales tax would also get money from the cash-only underground economy (which would be a good thing).

Still, 2 or 3%? Every state income tax I’ve seen is at least 5 and more often 7+ (and in some big cities it’s 9 or something). Also, most don’t exempt clothes. Hell, some of them don’t even exempt food bought at the grocery store, which is bananas. Then you’ve got the problem that now there’s a whole new bureaucracy set up just to administer the sales tax, and trying to sniff out the mom and pop operators keeping two sets of books. That whole new bureaucracy isn’t free.

They would REALLY have to raise the taxable income floor for the income tax (a floor which was set back in the 1930s or something when 10K/year was a lot of money), and make it a good deal less punishing on most, and higher on the people living in mansions in Dunthorpe and Forest Park, in order for any proposed sales tax to fly. Glad to hear you’re against it unless the state income tax is truly reformed. EDIT: and I’ll add that it would only have a chance if the law explicitly called for any increases in the tax to be through a vote of the people.

Anyway, we’re pretty far afield here. Back to Trump, he and his whole crew are a sh_tshow, and I’m not optimistic. If we were boned after 8 years of W, we’re going to be triple boned after 4 years (let’s hope only 4) years of Trump.

3293

This is anecdotal, but a friend of mine that used to work in a Tampa-area public defender’s office said that Florida levies plenty of sizable fines on petty crimes. She said this was intentional, to make up for shortfalls from a lack of income tax. Could any Floridians here confirm this? Or maybe you guys keep clean of any misdemeanors.

3294

If nothing else, I find it fascinating how each state does things a bit differently, but all end okay (some more than others.)

3295

Kansas would like a word with you!

3296

Nebraska has both an income tax and a sales tax. The sales tax is 5.5%. Local sales taxes are not allowed to be higher than 2%, so the most you’ll pay is 7.5%. Medicines and non-prepared foods are exempt. Omaha gets around the whole “2% cap” by implemented target taxes, like a 2% Restaurant tax and some ridiculous Hotel tax, so you can end up paying close to 10% tax if you eat out in the city.

The income tax here is pretty progressive. It starts at ~2% and rises to ~7% for the highest income bracket.

Where Nebraska really annoys me with taxes is the property tax. In most areas, you’ll pay around 2%. Where I live, in a little city about 25 miles outside of Omaha, we’re paying 2.7%, which is freaking insane. This year has been particularly bad because the valuations were true’d up to better match actual sales prices, causing a large chunk of the Omaha area to see their annual property tax rise by as much as 25%. Mine went up close to 30%, but I was expecting it since their initial valuation for taxes was based on a completed development nearby. We were the 5th house in the new neighborhood, so they didn’t really have much to go on. Now that the neighborhood has a lot more houses completed and sold, they had a larger sample size to determine valuation. Still, it hurts seeing an $1800/year increase in out-of-pocket cost and getting absolutely nothing out of it.

Having the Omaha area taxed out the nose to pay for the rest of the sparsely populated state is painful. At least the cost of living is lower than the national average.