1938

Sure.

I just think it might be useful for people to know that you don’t really get the flu shot every year to boost the ones you had before. Like if you had one three years ago, skipped a year because you felt you still had a little left and now you go in and get a boost and you’re good again… when they’re largely designed around a flu season, like singular.

I’m not really speculating about what we don’t have, aka the COVID ones.

1939

You keep saying this but in many Asian countries masks have been in widespread use for a while. Covid is making permanent changes to the world we live in and many of those changes suck (I miss concerts like a motherfucker) but people adapt.

Nobody wants to have to wear a mask every time they go out but no one wants to get a potentially deadly virus that may having life long consequences for many who survive. And another point that Trump’s failure of leadership obfuscated but that will hopefully become a point of emphasis moving forward should he lose, everyone wants the economy to return to something resembling normalcy. If the cost of moving past fear and returning to a semi-normal but changed world is wearing a mask, people will come to accept masks.

1940

Out of curiosity, how do these Asian countries handle bars and restaurants?

1941

Westerners are too individualistic to adopt a mask culture, we’re culturally incapable of it. It would take something a lot deadlier than COVID to change this. (probably something with a 5-10% mortality rate might do it)

Folks will risk the virus, especially if said risk is very low due to vaccination.

1942

It’s not just a “western” thing. The whole world is struggling with COVID, and even in the countries where mask wearing is not highly unusual… it’s not some magic bean. This idea that the east Asian countries are just a bunch that obey the government without question and always sacrifice for the common good and always wear a mask… eeh.

We’ll find a way, but not by misunderstanding other cultures to do it.

1943

I don’t know man, over here mask usage is at 100% or close to it and people don’t seem to argue about it anymore (proper mask usage is a different thing, but it has less to do with individualism than with laziness).

1945

yea but ask people to wear these inside buildings the whole day

I believe in spain people weak mask has a exception - when they are walking somewhere but not inside their home or their workplace (if they are alone in their workplace)

Is near 100% of people but not near 100% of the time

1946

Up to the 2007 crisis I never imagined people would buy shit on credit at all because I didn’t. This time I’m surprised with the masks: 99% people wear it where the police can fine you or where you can be booted out for not wearing one, like shops or school, but take it off whenever they can, even in dangerous environments. It’s like a dare or challenge for them. They are not stupid, they are not bad people, they know the same that I know, but for some reason can’t resist getting away with taking the thing off when it’s supposed to be on.
At work we are in 4-person not-so-big offices. In our office we all are WFH, with 1 day per week mandatory attendance. We have arranged to be in on different days, but I still keep the window open and the mask on all the time. In adjacent offices people are coming in full time and remove their masks when sitting “because it’s allowed”, and just open the window here and there, so the chances of all 4 getting covid if one brings it are pretty big IMO.
The other day one of them came over to say hi and told me “man, you keep the mask on even alone?” I was tempted to retort “well now you are here fucktard, not alone anymore”.

1947

Yeah, you don’t have to wear it at home, if alone in a workplace or if sleeping or talk no a shower… :P

It is 100% of the time in the moments that you can infect someone with one glaring exception…

…indoors eating. Why we haven’t closed indoors bars and restaurants is beyond me.

1948

Because the average Spaniard would die rather than stop going for his 11 AM coffee and tapa. This might have sounded like an stereotype or exaggeration if said before, but now I know it to be literally true. Today people will die because going to the bar was important enough to knowingly risk their lives for it. In my hometown there is a bar or restaurant for every 100 people. I understand that If you close them again you kill the economy, but now it looks like a race to see who dies first: the patrons or the bar.

1949

Very much this. Basically governments everywhere have given in to the urge to let restaurants and bars function normally. I listen to people here say that restaurants are fine if you maintain social distance, but restaurants here are tiny, and social distancing might mean 4 covers of 2-4 people in 20 square meters, rather than 6 or 8 covers. Some places have good outdoor space and that is probably fine — the weather mostly permits it year-round — but the places with only indoor seating ought to be shut down.

1950

There is a real fear that if we do shut the local restraurants down, they’ll never come back, and you’ll have nothing but soulless chains when things return.

Personally I would have shut down the chains and let the local places stay open at half capacity, but that would have been struck down by the courts.

In my case, eating out is one of the two things that keeps me sane, so I just try to aim for times it’s empty- which is easy given that I’m a night shift worker.

I’ll say this- it really is a bit of a problem that the 24-hr places aren’t 24-hrs anymore. If I lose power, I’m SOL. This happened once during lockdown already.

1951

NYC has a clever solution. Habilítate outdoor eating/drinking space for every single business. Close some streets to traffic to make space if you need to.

Bars would be hurt, since many won’t be able to accommodate nearly as many guests, but not killed off, and it’s doable. It just needs political will.

There’s some of this going on. In Madrid many places have now outdoor sitting taken from parking space. But it’s not enough, specially if you keep indoors open, because people are stupid and keep eating inside. I even had one waiter tell me to sit inside instead of outside a couple of weeks ago because it was somewhat chilly. I almost walked off. Instead we had dinner in a huge eating space that was empty but for us while the indoors space was packed with (dumb) people.

Good thing if that I don’t mind cold and I have been eating out (literally out) every weekend. But you need to book outdoors sitting almost a week in advance now.

1952

Well, the problem with outdoor seating is that winter is coming fast now. It’s one thing to dine outside in the spring, summer, or fall. But winters can be pretty harsh, especially in the northeast.

1953

Not in Spain. You can get heaters and population centers with 90% of the country’s total population could have terraces 365 days a year. Many places do.

Not saying it’s not expensive, but it’s viable and better than closing.

Also, one reason why our R0 was so high was, I’m sure, how packed bars could get over here in normal situations:

image

Even if you scale down from this, you need to scale down A LOT. 50% occupancy isn’t going to do it.

1954

But you mentioned NYC. NYC winters are a lot harsher.

1955

It’s kind of hilarious that the attitude to getting a virus that kills 1% of the people who get and has unknown long-term effects is “no biggie, maybe I will wear a mask sometimes, if I feel like it” and the attitude to a vaccine that will have been tested on tens of thousands of people is “why would I risk it?”. Hey, at least the virus is natural, right? Humanity is doomed.

Not that I think you personally believe the above, but I agree that a distressingly large portion of people seem to have put their brain on backwards.

1956

And it’s all tied to politics. I am sure there are Trump supporters who wear a mask and are responsible, but all the people I know who think COVID is fake, don’t wear masks, and are posting pictures of themselves partying on Instagram, are huge Trump supporters. All devout Christians too.

1957

All faux Christians.

1958

Then you’re already fucked, because there is no way there is going to be 330 million doses manufactured, distributed, and administered to Americans (or the 445 million who live in the EU) in a few months. It’s impossible for any number of reasons.