Presidential Race 2016

[Juan_Raigada]

Because there is no left in America, perhaps?

I would say there’s no true left in power almost anywhere in the developed world (the ineffective Greek government being perhaps one of the few examples). While it’s true you can criticize those not in power, it doesn’t carry the same bite.

There’s craziness at both ends of the spectrum (climate change denial on one side and vaccine denial, anti-science new agish stances on the other) but, at least from what I can see from here, only one of the ends holds any true political power right now.

[Alstein]

I consider Sanders and Warren moderately liberal progressives, and Hillary a non-progressive liberal (Trump might be more progressive than Hillary)

The extremism by current Republicans does scare me, if only because it will lower the bar for Dems to win, so the next Dem might even be worse than Hillary.

[inactive_user]

And, Adam B, I’d love to know which “hilariously non-reality-based movement” referring to when I can quote a West Point study laced with FBI and DHS stats on how there have been over 300 domestic far Right acts of violence per year since 9/11.

I was referring to Desslock there, not you.

[Scuzz]

And, Scuzz, you missed Hedges’ point. If Trump fails, which I think he will, another will take that role during the next election cycle. . .if Hedges is correct. Time will tell.

I don’t think so. No doubt there will be someone saying the same stuff, but the success of Trump is due to his already being a household name, his willingness to spend his own personal wealth and his personality and attitude which allows him to ignore the objections to what he says.

That combination doesn’t come along every 4 years.

[Scuzz]

And how does MSNBC sit and discuss the San Bernadino shootings and bring in the Rev. Al Sharpton as a network expert. In what world do people really consider Sharpton an expert on anything.

[CraigM]

I don’t think so. No doubt there will be someone saying the same stuff, but the success of Trump is due to his already being a household name, his willingness to spend his own personal wealth and his personality and attitude which allows him to ignore the objections to what he says.

That combination doesn’t come along every 4 years.

Then explain Carson. He is saying equally, if not more, outrageous things and getting the same boost. Ans he is most certainly not a household name with billions to burn.

[Timex]

Carson’s already falling in the polls. He had his moment, and it’s done now.

[Scuzz]

Then explain Carson. He is saying equally, if not more, outrageous things and getting the same boost. Ans he is most certainly not a household name with billions to burn.

He is really no different than Hickabee and Santorum in 2012 though. Limited shelf lives. The more they say the worse they do.

[Desslock]

Exactly this. And I’d love for Desslock to find one post written by me at Qt3 or anywhere expousing true liberal ideology.

The frothing mad last one I’ve referenced 3 times now. Are you really that blind to how you come across? Seriously, you seem to be under the delusion that you’re some objective centrist, when the one thing I was unable to find was a single post from you in this forum espousing comments that were not antagonistic to anyone who doesn’t share your left-wing views. I get it - you’re passionate and your life experience has led you to feel very strongly about your views, but you aren’t even-handed or centrist in any way. No need to be defensive about beliefs that are clearly deeply held.

But we’re talking about the Desslock who peddled the Jonah Goldberg piece comparing GWB to Batman after the Dark Knight was released (both were such brave warriors willing to do bad things to keep The People safe and snug)

Bastardized characterization so you probably misunderstood the article, which I think was in the Wall Street Journal and not written by Goldberg, but I definitely agreed with the premise which was that Dark Knight, like 300, was a movie that expressed conservative moral values of selflessly doing what’s right, even if it has costs. Not exactly controversial.

Desslock peddled pure Republican talking points in his initial post

Unsure why you would act surprised that conservatives disagree with the left-wing narratives you prefer…when that post was prompted by my desire to indicate that I didn’t agree with those narratives.

Where can I find these talking points you reference? Sound more sensible than most of what I hear from Republican candidates.

But, yes, Desslock doesn’t have the time to spend correcting a far leftie like me, he’s too busy masturbating to the latest Ben Quayle video proclaiming Obama to be the_worst_president_EVAR!!!

Well, other than the 1500 word response. Other than that. Yeah, that you’re making a persuasive case that it wasn’t an utter waste of time on you. Don’t know who Ben Quayle and childishly vulgar retorts like that exemplify why you’re a waste of time.

[Desslock]

Then explain Carson. He is saying equally, if not more, outrageous things and getting the same boost. Ans he is most certainly not a household name with billions to burn.

He’s just the candidate the religious right have adopted early, like Santorum in 2012 and Huckabee in 2008. He’s gotten more spotlight because of a general hostility towards establishment politicians, but there aren’t a lot of candidates really courting that faction - just those 2 same guys and Cruz.

[John_Reynolds]

I dunno John, I get a pretty left of center vibe from you too. I think it’s generally not that you espouse extremely far left values, but rather that you focus heavily on criticizing only the right, in a fairly venomous way. I don’t recall you ever directing any of that to the left, which is why you give off that vibe I think.

We’ve had this discussion. I wrote a very lengthy post on my political views and you didn’t have the basic courtesy of a response after repeatedly badgering me for it. And you make the assumption that my caustic barbs toward the GOP are steeped in partisan origins, which isn’t the case. You, however, make that assumption because of your own partisan leanings. My bitterness comes toward what my former, and only, party has warped itself into.

Don’t know who Ben Quayle and childishly vulgar retorts like that exemplify why you’re a waste of time.

Well, at least I didn’t suggest you were a child molester. I can’t imagine who’d use that as a rhetorical tactic when they get the vapors over being confronted on their unhinged opinions (“every word ever printed by the NYT contains liberal bias”).

[Timex]

We’ve had this discussion. I wrote a very lengthy post on my political views and you didn’t have the basic courtesy of a response after repeatedly badgering me for it. And you make the assumption that my caustic barbs toward the GOP are steeped in partisan origins, which isn’t the case. You, however, make that assumption because of your own partisan leanings. My bitterness comes toward what my former, and only, party has warped itself into.

I think I actually did respond, didn’t I? I definitely recall your response, and found it reasonably well constructed. But as I just said here, I think the reason you give off that vibe is because of the extreme levels of what I can really only describe as rage that come from you aimed exclusively at the right.

[John_Reynolds]

I think I actually did respond, didn’t I? I definitely recall your response, and found it reasonably well constructed. But as I just said here, I think the reason you give off that vibe is because of the extreme levels of what I can really only describe as rage that come from you aimed exclusively at the right.

No, but no big deal. I do, however, find it very insulting to be called a liberal without actual proof. Mainly because so much of my adult life has been spent as a moderate conservative in terms of the role and costs of govt (I am socially liberal). I actually despite Democratic style leadership, but the Dems are a typical political party and not a radical outlier like what the GOP has become. So while I keenly dislike them as a caucus and rarely share their orthodoxy, I don’t feel the need to unleash the fury of my forked tongue upon their body <g>. I’m a pretty moderate guy, so rage isn’t accurate. . .bitterness is more like it; and, sad to say, the Dems are probably closer at this point to a moderate, right-leaning approach than the GOP. An old friend just posted on my FB wall a few days ago how he remembers arguing politics with me in the 90s when I was still a proud Republican. That ship sailed when the party nominated GWB, and I’ll remain an independent until the sleep that doesn’t end takes me.

Stefan and I obviously rub each other the wrong way, and I don’t want to make this subforum unpleasant for others, take away the enjoyment. So I’ll promise here to just not respond to his posts/opinions in the future.

[Desslock]

Well, at least I didn’t suggest you were a child molester. I can’t imagine who’d use that as a rhetorical tactic

Sometimes giving someone being defamatory a dose of his own medicine slaps some perspective and lucidity into him, but other times they’re too dense to learn from the experience. Keep on trucking down your lane and I’ll honk the horn occasionally.

[Timex]

No, but no big deal. I do, however, find it very insulting to be called a liberal without actual proof. Mainly because so much of my adult life has been spent as a moderate conservative in terms of the role and costs of govt (I am socially liberal). I actually despite Democratic style leadership, but the Dems are a typical political party and not a radical outlier like what the GOP has become. So while I keenly dislike them as a caucus and rarely share their orthodoxy, I don’t feel the need to unleash the fury of my forked tongue upon their body <g>. I’m a pretty moderate guy, so rage isn’t accurate. . .bitterness is more like it; and, sad to say, the Dems are probably closer at this point to a moderate, right-leaning approach than the GOP. An old friend just posted on my FB wall a few days ago how he remembers arguing politics with me in the 90s when I was still a proud Republican. That ship sailed when the party nominated GWB, and I’ll remain an independent until the sleep that doesn’t end takes me.

Stefan and I obviously rub each other the wrong way, and I don’t want to make this subforum unpleasant for others, take away the enjoyment. So I’ll promise here to just not respond to his posts/opinions in the future.

Because I recall your response, I did not call you a liberal here if you notice. I said that I get a left of center vibe from you. And I also said that it wasn’t because you necessarily espoused left leaning political views, but rather that you have kind of internalized a pretty hard core demonization of the right wing. Now, I fully understand the notion of bitterness in this regard. I’ve described my own increasing frustration with the republican party here on these boards, many times. Because yeah, they are kind of going down the road to crazy down.

So it’s that bitterness, directed at the actual people themselves, that gives the impression that you are left leaning, because most of the folks who absolutely hate the right wing like you do tend to hate them because they hold opposing views.

Also, bear in mind here that I do not believe in the use of “liberal” as though it were an insult. While no doubt humorous to many here, I get called a liberal by various far right folks largely due to my beliefs on a variety of things which most definitely do not fall in line with the republican party. Like, I don’t hate Obama. Thus, I must obviously agree with all of his policies. Or I state that saying he’s a secret muslim is retarded, which only liberals would believe. Or something.

Regardless, I apologize for not giving your explanation a response when it merited one, even if only a “Ok, I read that.” I actually just went through trying to find it now to make sure I read it in detail, but couldn’t find it.

[John_Reynolds]

Because I recall your response, I did not call you a liberal here if you notice. I said that I get a left of center vibe from you. And I also said that it wasn’t because you necessarily espoused left leaning political views, but rather that you have kind of internalized a pretty hard core demonization of the right wing. Now, I fully understand the notion of bitterness in this regard. I’ve described my own increasing frustration with the republican party here on these boards, many times. Because yeah, they are kind of going down the road to crazy down.

So it’s that bitterness, directed at the actual people themselves, that gives the impression that you are left leaning, because most of the folks who absolutely hate the right wing like you do tend to hate them because they hold opposing views.

Also, bear in mind here that I do not believe in the use of “liberal” as though it were an insult. While no doubt humorous to many here, I get called a liberal by various far right folks largely due to my beliefs on a variety of things which most definitely do not fall in line with the republican party. Like, I don’t hate Obama. Thus, I must obviously agree with all of his policies. Or I state that saying he’s a secret muslim is retarded, which only liberals would believe. Or something.

Regardless, I apologize for not giving your explanation a response when it merited one, even if only a “Ok, I read that.” I actually just went through trying to find it now to make sure I read it in detail, but couldn’t find it.

True, you didn’t use that word. And like I said, it’s no biggie and no need to feel like you have to apologize (though I appreciate the gesture). I’m aware I can give that impression in quick internet posts (I do better with actual conversation) if you don’t know me; I just felt like we’d walked this ground, so your post surprised me a bit.

Anyways. . .Hodor for prez, 2016!!!

[Dan_Theman]

Hodor for prez, 2016!!!

That would at least make for a compelling State of the Union address.

[Scuzz]

Also, bear in mind here that I do not believe in the use of “liberal” as though it were an insult. While no doubt humorous to many here, I get called a liberal by various far right folks largely due to my beliefs on a variety of things which most definitely do not fall in line with the republican party. Like, I don’t hate Obama. Thus, I must obviously agree with all of his policies. Or I state that saying he’s a secret muslim is retarded, which only liberals would believe. Or something.

It is amazing how saying something simple like “I don’t think Obama is the worst President in American history” will get you branded as a liberal. I have run into that several times. I don’t agree with probably 50% of what he says or does but I don’t hate the guy for it. But verbalize that around some people and you just became a socialist.

[LMN8R]

What confuses me are those who sternly hold to the “anyone but Hilary” mantra. I know people and of people who would literally rather have Trump or Carson than Clinton in office.

I personally don’t think Clinton is the most trustworthy person, but to pretend like she’s less trustworthy than Trump or Carson is just hilarious in my opinion. And she’d certainly be a more capable leader than those two.

[Scuzz]

I will not vote for Hillary…unless she ends up running against Trump. That is the one opponent (okay probably Cruz or Carson as well) that would force me to violate my “no more Clinton’s” promise.