3282

There is always a segment of the population that votes for someone without knowing why. Kennedy beat Nixon because he was more photogenic. Clinton had that going for him. Reagan was a better “communicator” than his opposition.

Somewhere in peoples minds there is the feeling that rich people, very rich people, must know something or have done something right to get that money and to keep that money. Big business wheeler dealers are respected for that ability.

Plus we are in times that are new, untried so to speak. Sure we have been though wars and tough economic times, but we have never dealt with enemies who will kill without warning based on some unfathomable religious dogma. People see the current government system as being powerless. And Trump seems to vocalize those fears.

3283

That is what I meant up above when I questioned how many people who say they are for Trump in polls will actually vote for him. I think a great many people know what he actually says is straight out batshit crazy. Deep down most of those people have to know that Trump can’t actually do the unconstitutional things he says he would do.

3284

To support Nesrie’s comments about his dad. . .people know their standard of living is harder and harder to maintain. Especially those in their 60s and 70s. In the early 1970s many American households were single income, yet could still save some of that each year and go on a decent family vacation. That’s not so common these days, most are dual income, they struggle to make ends meet, are lucky to be able to take a family vacation. I think Lofgren talked in his book about the increasing financialization of America’s economy as it’s been de-industrialized. The govt, state and fed both, have over the last 35 years reduced the tax burden on corporations and the upper brackets while increasing it on the lower income categories (as a % of income). People are scared, overworked, stressed, distrustful of govt as even capable of helping (programmatically a long-term strategy of the Republican party that pays solid dividends electorally for them). . .so along comes someone charismatic like Obama, and he energizes the base despite apparent lack of qualifications and experience. Turns out to be a mediocre president. Along comes Trump, who tells people what they want to hear rather than engage in policy speak (why bother if people don’t trust govt or govt policy to help them?). This is mimetic of Reagan, who again told people that everything was fine, that it was morning in America (I like applying the Malaise Speech as a blind test to younger folk, who read it unattributed and undated and always come back to me thinking it was written last year because so much of its content is still relevant to the country today).

Unfortunately, Trump is not identifying the real sources of the masses’ economic pains, but instead scapegoating convenient strawmen to blame.

3285

“Stupid” is exactly the right description for Trump supporters. These are people with so narrow a view of good and bad they are focusing exclusively on this tiny little snow-flower of anti-establishment rhetoric growing in a vast hellscape of racism, xenophobia, generalized hatred, and self-destructive bad policy in every other phase of government and politics.

So sure, the current congress is the worst ever, and while our President isn’t the worst ever, he’s certainly been the source of many problems. But voting for Trump as a protest against government is like running your cruise ship into an iceberg because the cubes in your cocktail have melted.

3286

It’s five days later and I’m still waiting for this to happen.

3287

3288

Heh, well if someone asked me if so many people would actually support not allowing US Citizens back into the US, I would have said no way. This is the same group that keeps running around claiming freedom and constitutional rights… except if you are in the group they don’t like, apparently.

3289

I know you don’t like Reagan at all, but I think that there is a clear difference between Reagan and Trump.

When you go and listen to Reagan’s speeches, they basically all shared a message based on a strong sense of optimism. Reagan believed very strongly in the inherent good of America, and he believed that we truly were the good guys. And I think that such a belief is powerful, and a good thing. Simplistic and naive, perhaps, but I think it’s the essence of what America really should be. It should guide our actions, and while it’s fair to question the effectiveness of Reagan’s actions in achieving his ultimate goals, I think that few (although certainly some) would actually think that he wanted bad things for the country, or was not acting in what he believed to be the nation’s best interests. And I think that he ultimately wanted good things for everyone, not just Americans, but people elsewhere.

Trump’s message is based ENTIRELY on fear. If he shares something with anyone, it’s Hitler in 1932. And while the comparison to Nazi’s is overused, I feel that in this case it’s frighteningly apropos.

This is not to say I believe that such an outcome is likely, as I do not believe that America faces anything approaching the level of desparation that ushered Hitler into power. But Trump’s appeal, and his message, are virtually identical. He claims to be a strongman who will make the country strong again, and defeat our enemies. He vilifies various minority groups. He fosters irrational hatred in his supporters, who cheer his obscene comments.

And that’s what this is to me. It is obscene. It is the absolute worst of America, if you can call it American at all. It is the opposite of everything we stand for.

And the reality is, Reagan would be horrified at the idea that such a man would be polling so well with such a message. Trump is suggesting that we become the monster that Reagan fought so hard against. That we abandon everything good about America, out of fear.

I will vote for literally anyone over him, no matter what.

3290

Their version of the Constitution is written in crayon and only in their mind.

3291

Yeah minimizing and dismissing the real struggles of these individuals… is a sure fire way to make sure Trump gets the nominee and potentially the presidency. And if you read the rest of this, not all of these people are racists and hateful. Being afraid of terrorists, doesn’t make you hateful. Questioning immigration policies doesn’t make you racists either. Questioning tax policies that squeeze the middle doesn’t make you self-destructive. And listening to an endless stream of politicians that don’t actually talk about the issues you care about and deciding against them isn’t really a protest.

3292

Thing is… if you want someone who will help the middle class, that’s Sanders. It’s literally the story of the man’s life.

Trump’s story is self-aggrandizing and racism. If you can’t see that, then… stupid isn’t a bad description.

3293

That the story of most of Trump’s supporters. They’ve been voting against their own self interests for years. This is what they get.

3294

I’m not sure what you could possibly call Trumps statements, if not racist, xenophobic, and bigoted.

And if someone says racist, bigoted things… and you cheer… then that makes you a racist bigot.

3295

There’s always the chance he’ll come out with an Amtrak-reform plan to eliminate delays.

3296

This.

3297

I wasn’t trying to make a direct comparison between the two. The bottom line is that it’s a hopeful message, spoken plainly, and I think that’s what a lot of Trump supporters are drawn to. I mean, c’mon, I included Obama in there too. . .people hear a message they like, and they start overlooking the obvious shortcomings in the candidate’s qualifications. It’s optics over substance, which is a real shame, but we tend to be a pretty shallow society (a plastic one).

But, yeah, I don’t disagree with the rest of your post. And, yes, Reagan would be taken aback by a lot of things going on in DC these days.

3298

But I don’t see Trump’s message as hopeful at all.

Regan and Obama both had a similar tone, in that they inspired hope and optimism. But trump is all fear.

3299

Because you see through the bullshit. But if all you’re hearing is that he’s going to make America great again and bring back jobs, that message is one of hope for a return to Bruce Springsteen’s Glory Days. :P

Like I said, I don’t disagree with your post. I’m not talking for myself, in case this hasn’t been clear, I realize Trump is leveraging fear which is why I said he’s scapegoating strawmen, I’m arguing that in the eyes of his supporters they’re hearing a positive message. The rest of us are sitting back appalled that his poll #s aren’t tanking.

3300

It’s what I’ve been saying for a while. The country’s collective sub-conscious has reached its tipping point when it comes to our broken political system and the realization that we’ve become an oligarchy. People sense this even if they can’t quite put it into words. The natural political countermovement is populism. So, on the left you have a progressive populist in Sanders and on the right you have an authoritarian populist in Trump.

Unfortunately, I think the way for that authoritarian populism has been well paved by the right wing propaganda machine over the past 15-20 years. I feel like the Republican party has been creeping towards fascism for a while now and Trump seems to be the tipping point from playing with all of the same tools as the fascists and actually taking the leap into embracing fascism. It is frankly a scary moment in time for our country.

Ironically, Sanders on the left is proposing measures that are very much like what we got from FDR in the 30’s. I hope we choose that path again. I’d like to think that, if the two of them won the nomination, it would be a slam dunk for Sanders. I think people still believe in the dream of America.

Anyway, did someone already mention the Mann and Orstein piece from 2012 which called out the Republican Party as an insurgent movement? Because it’s more relevant than ever:

3301


Preface: for anyone who is reading this and is unfamiliar with my views, please be aware that a Trump presidency terrifies the living daylights out me.

I think his “I have the best plan, and will have the best people to do whatever” is hopeful. I mean, you need to at least give credit for (absolutely unfounded) optimism to a guy who knows nothing about numerous subjects and confidently states that he’ll find the right way through because he is him. Honestly, I can see how at least that part of his message is appealing; the vast majority of the voting public is understandably ignorant of all the complexities of politics, both domestic and abroad. Having someone who is clearly ignorant as well provide a message that with nothing but sheer willpower and bravado he will overcome the troubles of our time is … almost nice. It provides a message that a person can empower themselves simply through internal monologue, kind of like a constant BS self-help seminar that’s always running. And the thing is, we’ve all felt that before: almost everyone has had a boss that they felt was less qualified than themselves. Many of us have had teachers who didn’t know something as well as we did. Heck, we’ve certainly had moments where we nailed our parents on something and got the “Because I told you so!” response (or worse).

“Feeling unfairly put upon? Vote for Trump! He can do it because he says he can!!!” (unspoken: “And that means so can you!”)