Nesrie
3302
I feel the same way. I can’t really speak favorably about Trump. I’m regretting the years I really liked The Apprentice even. All I can say is if Trump opponents think that they’re just facing a bunch of bigoted, hateful and paranoid individuals, they’re going to fail. Those are not the kind of people I’ve encountered in this group. And if you don’t believe I know what racism, hatred and blatant stupidity looks like, there is nothing I can say to convince anyone otherwise. We can keep scratching our heads and wonder why Trump is so high in these polls.
Guys, guys, listen! The reason the Donald is doing so well in the polls is because of his well-thought-through plans. I mean just today he told us how to stop the terrorists. All we gotta do is close up the Internet.
We’re losing a lot of people because of the Internet," Trump said Monday at a campaign rally in South Carolina.
“We have to go see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what’s happening. We have to talk to them about, maybe in certain areas, closing that Internet up in some way.”
See, Nobama would never have thought of something that smart.
Nesrie
3304
Not at all unlike China or you no other countries we generally try not to emulate are doing.
Timex
3305
So then what do those people, who are not racist, say when they are presented with the constant, overt racism and bigotry from trump? I mean, how are they able to fit that into their worldview if they are not themselves bigots? How is it not offensive to them?
Because every time I see them interview the cheering crowds, the people are repeating the bigotry. They flat out ask them whether they agree with sitting the borders to Muslims, and they say, “yeah, we got too many here already.” That’s a direct quote from a guy interviewed last night on CNN.
At some point, even if you think some of the stuff he says “sounds good”, the stuff he is saying is so reprehensible that you just cannot give it a pass. You can’t say, "Well… I’m not a fan of Hitler’s plan for the Jews, but he’s got some really great ideas for building up the public transportation! "
Nesrie
3306
I’m not them, but at the risk of you demanding that I defend them, I will say I don’t think they hear it. And let’s not mistake something here. Trump has the racists and the bigots and the white is losing everything crowd too. I am not surprised at all they found someone to give the mic to and get the response. What I am saying… that’s not the only group he has.
Timex
3307
No, no, I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make you take up their cause. I’m just questioning the desire to give folks a pass on support for a horrible monster like trump.
And bear in mind, I’m generally of the opinion that most folks are motivated by good things. I believe in discussing things with those you disagree with.
But Trump is making proposals which, if implemented, would constitute the destruction of everything good about America.
As if electing a Muslim terrorist negro didn’t already do that!
Your point about people trying to do right by their own beliefs is probably the most accurate way of looking at it, as worrisome as it is to fathom that somehow a not insignificant number of people in this country arrived at beliefs like the one I mockingly parodied above.
Nesrie
3309
My desire is driven by the fact that I know some of these people, for years. I have a good idea of what their struggles are, and while I don’t fully understand what they see in Trump, I know the rest of the circus that is this upcoming election seems to be pretty dismissive of their fears and concerns. It’s pretty hard to get someone to care about what’s going on in the Middle East when they honestly believe they’re going to be homeless, sick and without help in less than ten years. They feel the government betrayed them. And despite all the qualities someone like Sanders has, he’s been part of that government and has been for years.
I think someone else said it best earlier. Trump is an outsider, and even though he clearly has no plan, couldn’t possibly do what he says he’s going to do, or at least I hope he can’t, he keeps telling everyone he’s going to help them. They believe him. There is no way though, my dad or anyone else in his group would ever treat someone less than human… but somehow Trump has made some of these words sound almost abstract… as if there aren’t people behind the label.
I actually think that after yesterday’s comments, the jig is up for Trump and he’ll decline rapidly. Virtually every Republican and conservative, past and current, condemned him today, other than a few immigration extremists like Ann Coulter.
Yeah but they all (except Cruz) have condemned him before as well. It hasn’t seemed to make a lick of difference.
Well yes good sir! And that is about as long as the great american re-programming project has been running, so it all makes perfect sense really (that Trump is doing as well as he is).
Trump still has strong support from Breitbart.com, TheBlaze, WND, etc., non-establishment ‘news’ sources for these people. If mainstream commentators turn on Trump, they just might be part of the problem.
They’ll have to classify Fox News as being part of the problem. Fox reported his position as unifying both sides against him.
Teiman
3315
random link of the day:
Stop killing yourself, white people :D
Further proof that White Lives Matter is a legitimate cause.
Hillary wades in.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/no-donald-trump-were-not-barring-muslims-entering-country/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=20151208feed-trump
To Muslim Americans: What you’re hearing from Trump and other Republicans is absolutely, unequivocally wrong. It’s inconsistent with our values as a nation—a nation which you are helping to build. This is your country, too. I’m proud to be your fellow American. And many, many other Americans feel the same way.
Now is the time for all of us—especially Republican leaders—to stand up to hateful, dangerous words and deeds.
Just a few days ago, two young women wearing headscarves were trying to have breakfast at a café near the University of Texas at Austin when another diner started shouting racist things at them. The girls left in tears—in part because of the ugly words, but also because no one else in that crowded café came to their defense.
As they left, one of the girls asked the room, “Who cares about us?” Somebody called out, “Nobody.” “We left,” they said, “because it was true.”
But it’s not true. And we have to make sure Muslim Americans know that. It’s how we stay true to our values as Americans. And it’s how we show the world who we really are—a strong, proud, united country that still knows, after all these years, that all men and women are created equal.
Timex
3318
Hillary is kind of being sleazy though in trying to get political points on this, given that Republican leaders most definitely already did condemn this shit.
Not sure that’s correct. Breitbart (I don’t follow any of the other ones you mentioned) crew soundly condemned him after Monday’s remarks. Here’s what Ben Shapiro wrote: http://www.dailywire.com/news/1668/desperate-trump-drops-ugly-policy-bomb-ban-all-ben-shapiro.
Donald Trump has just transformed into the strawman President Obama abused on Sunday night
Everyone who gives opinions on Foxnews, like the commentators on the 6 o’clock news (Charles Krauthammer, etc.) gave also been calling him out. Here’s what Charles K wrote: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/428223/krauthammers-take-trump-deeply-bigoted-it-indefensible-nr-staff
“The issue is not just that it’s impulsive or unreasonable. This is truly deeply bigoted. It is indefensible.”
This is definitely a watershed moment for the Trump campaign because unlike things such as what he meant during the discussion of a “muslim register” it can’t be rationalized or excused by the actions of a biased, manipulative media. Trump’s ugliness is finally starkly exposed to the right as well as the left. I actually think that not only have these comments destroyed Trump’s campaign, they’ve sealed up the election for Hillary as it’ll be difficult for the Republicans to recover from this moment no matter who is the eventual nominee. Their best shot at this point would likely to be to go with someone like Romney who can white knight. While it still could be Rubio as nominee, it could now easily be Cruz, who will get destroyed.
Except she points out that they previously said some pretty shitty things about Muslims.
Ben Carson says that a Muslim shouldn’t be president. Marco Rubio compares Muslims to members of the Nazi Party and refuses to rule out monitoring and closing of mosques. Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz have suggested that we implement a religious test for Syrian refugees—one that only Christians would pass. Chris Christie says not even 3-year-old Syrian orphans should be let in. And they insist on using the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism”—in fact, they criticize anyone who says anything else—even though it drives the exact narrative the jihadists want to advance: that we’re at war with an entire religion.
When you take a step back and see what the Republican field as a whole says about Muslims—not just one or two candidates for President, but nearly all of them—it’s hard to take seriously their attempts to distance themselves from Mr. Trump. He’s just articulating the logical conclusion of what the rest of them have been saying. As Mr. Trump said in an interview this morning, “They condemn practically everything I say, and then they always come to my side.”
Timex
3321
I don’t find her statements there compelling at all though.
Chris Christie says not even 3-year-old Syrian orphans should be let in.
For instance, the suggestion that Chris Christie says not even 3 year old orphans should be let in. That isn’t actually a quote from Christie, but is a quote from a tweet from Hugh Hewitt. In the actual interview, it was kind of a silly question as part of a long interview, and Christie simply said that coming up with specific scenarios that you can question is really sidestepping the issue of vetting refugees. Regarding orphans under the age of five, he said that it was kind of silly to specifically focus on that to try and say “Well THESE kids aren’t terrorists!” because of course they aren’t… but you can’t just take a three year old and let him into the country to wander around on his own. My opinions regarding the refugees are much more in line with simply accepting all of them because that’s what America is about… but Hillary’s characterization of Christie’s statements isn’t really honest I don’t think.
And they insist on using the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism”—in fact, they criticize anyone who says anything else—even though it drives the exact narrative the jihadists want to advance: that we’re at war with an entire religion.
Her statement that using the term “radical islamic terrorism” somehow drives the narrative that we’re at war with Islam? That doesn’t even make sense. How is using that term in any way wrong? I think her statement here is nonsensical.
I mean, we ARE at war with radical Islamic terrorism, right?
We certainly aren’t at war with Islam… but we ARE at war with the radical elements of Islam. Are we supposed to pretend like they aren’t Islamic? Why? I think that’s kind of absurd. And quite frankly, trying to pretend that isn’t the case actually fuels the islamophic segment of society, because it gives this impression that people aren’t really dealing with the issue, or even admitting what the issue is.
