Presidential Race 2016

Oghier · 2015-12-18T08:30:55.000Z

Stepsongrapes:

Correlation is not necessarily causation. It need not be the Daily Show being responsible for the level of information of its viewers.

I think there is causation in a relative sense. Watching The Daily Show or Jon Oliver probably does not make you smarter or more well informed. However, watching Fox News will absolutely lead to you believing many untrue things. Many of us encounter examples of that on a regular basis ;) Thus, the poll results.

Scuzz · 2015-12-18T08:53:54.000Z

legowarrior:

Too many studies showed that Daily show watchers were some of the most informed people in America. Not journalists just better at being journalists that anyone on cable news.

So Amuricans want their news in a light entertaining format. They want it youtube style. I fear if the old giants of American TV journalism were to suddenly appear today and do news nobody would watch them. They wouldn’t be entertaining.

Balasarius · 2015-12-18T09:13:26.000Z

Oghier:

I think there is causation in a relative sense. Watching The Daily Show or Jon Oliver probably does not make you smarter or more well informed. However, watching Fox News will absolutely lead to you believing many untrue things. Many of us encounter examples of that on a regular basis ;) Thus, the poll results.

Shows like John Oliver and VICE absolutely make me more informed. They shine a light into dark places that never gets covered in the mainstream media.

legowarrior · 2015-12-18T09:23:46.000Z

Scuzz:

So Amuricans want their news in a light entertaining format. They want it youtube style. I fear if the old giants of American TV journalism were to suddenly appear today and do news nobody would watch them. They wouldn’t be entertaining.

No, I think they want coverage with an editorially voice that people can connect with, and that doesn’t have a goal other than to entertain and tell the truth.

What the Daily Show, the Colbert Report, John Olive and others do is cover the news, but also put it in context, and not just fill air time.

John Oliver goes in depth on boring topics, but he makes them entertaining, but more than that, he explains why it matters (at least to him) and what it means.

CNN/FOX/MSNBC is just showing your a string of random stories, and doesn’t both with any in depth coverage, and is just looking for 1 minute clips.

Timex · 2015-12-18T09:25:51.000Z

Balasarius:

Shows like John Oliver and VICE absolutely make me more informed. They shine a light into dark places that never gets covered in the mainstream media.

Don’t you mean the LAMEstream media?

magnet · 2015-12-18T09:34:03.000Z

Scuzz:

So Amuricans want their news in a light entertaining format. They want it youtube style. I fear if the old giants of American TV journalism were to suddenly appear today and do news nobody would watch them. They wouldn’t be entertaining.

Yet when those old giants of American TV journalism first appeared, old timers complained they were insufficiently cerebral compared to the giants of print journalism. One day, someone will no doubt gaze wistfully upon the giants of satirical news.

Balasarius · 2015-12-18T10:05:20.000Z

Timex:

Don’t you mean the LAMEstream media?

You betcha!

Oghier · 2015-12-18T12:56:47.000Z

Balasarius:

Shows like John Oliver and VICE absolutely make me more informed. They shine a light into dark places that never gets covered in the mainstream media.

That is a good point. I’m not sure The Daily Show ever aired a ‘news’ segment on subject matter I’d previously known nothing about, but John Oliver has, and VICE even more so (though I’d identify VICE as long-form journalism, not a comedy show that also informs). Perhaps I should have said, “TDS and Oliver may or may not make you smarter, but FOX absolutely makes you measurably more stupid.”

Nesrie · 2015-12-18T12:57:43.000Z

Derbain:

Hey, man, I don’t know why you keep dragging Fox News into the discussion. I did not mention them and I am not defending them. And I never said the Daily Show provided false information. I said that they lacked journalistic integrity, which involves a lot more than simply not telling any lies. Presentation matters. Objectivity matters. Intent matters.

But, hey, this is a silly thing to argue about and I apologize for maligning the Daily Show. Can we get back to making fun of Trump now? At least that most of us can agree on right?

Easy there, Fox was mentioned above me, and I agree with the point. The mainstream news barely fits your definition.

Oghier:

That is a good point. I’m not sure The Daily Show ever aired a ‘news’ segment on subject matter I’d previously known nothing about, but John Oliver has, and VICE even more so (though I’d identify VICE as long-form journalism, not a comedy show that also informs). Perhaps I should have said, “TDS and Oliver may or may not make you smarter, but FOX absolutely makes you measurably more stupid.”

These comedy shows have brought up a few things I didn’t know much about… and I looked more into them afterwards too like these Churches pushing money in envelopes and their leaders living lavish lifestyles tax free. I certainly wouldn’t say I’ve put in academic research levels into much of this, but the number of times I investigated a topic the facts checked out. Meanwhile we have the mainstream media covering 24/7 about not finding plane.

Tin_Wisdom · 2015-12-18T13:03:49.000Z

30% of Trump supporters feel that we should bomb the country of Agribah according to a new PPP poll. Stunningly, 19% of Democrats agree.

The major difficultly is that Agribah doesn’t actually exist - it’s the fictional country from the movie Aladin.

Nesrie · 2015-12-18T13:06:44.000Z

Tin Wisdom:

30% of Trump supporters feel that we should bomb the country of Agribah according to a new PPP poll. Stunningly, 19% of Democrats agree.

The major difficultly is that Agribah doesn’t actually exist - it’s the fictional country from the movie Aladin.

So how do you answer this properly? Should I support not bombing something that’s not real. I suppose that sounds better than bombing something that’s not real even if the result is the same.

I absolutely see the problem here, but I am wondering what answer they provided that was “correct”.

Fishbreath · 2015-12-18T13:21:45.000Z

Tin Wisdom:

30% of Trump supporters feel that we should bomb the country of Agribah according to a new PPP poll. Stunningly, 19% of Democrats agree.

The major difficultly is that Agribah doesn’t actually exist - it’s the fictional country from the movie Aladin.

Democrat primary voters oppose it 36/19, Republican Primary voters favor it 30/13—so the snide partisan point you’re trying to make here is kinda backwards. More of your ideological fellow travelers have an opinion on bombing something imaginary than mine.

Incendiary_Lemon · 2015-12-18T13:23:12.000Z

Tin Wisdom:

30% of Trump supporters feel that we should bomb the country of Agribah according to a new PPP poll. Stunningly, 19% of Democrats agree.

The major difficultly is that Agribah doesn’t actually exist - it’s the fictional country from the movie Aladin.

All it tells us is that 30% (and 19%) couldn’t identify Agribah and said yes, rather than admit to their own ignorance.

PPP should be embarrassed for asking the question.

Fishbreath · 2015-12-18T13:25:58.000Z

Incendiary Lemon:

All it tells us is that 30% couldn’t identify Agribah and were too embarrassed to say that.

PPP asked the questions in a very leading fashion, too: the previous four or five were about terrorism. Most people trust pollsters not to ask dumb gotcha questions.

Oghier · 2015-12-18T13:26:08.000Z

I think it shows that both parties have uninformed voters, but Trumpsters err on the side of “bomb them all, let god sort 'em out.” That makes for a funny bumper sticker, but a terrifying possibility as an actual policy.

Aleck · 2015-12-18T13:27:32.000Z

Nesrie:

So how do you answer this properly? Should I support not bombing something that’s not real. I suppose that sounds better than bombing something that’s not real even if the result is the same.

I absolutely see the problem here, but I am wondering what answer they provided that was “correct”.

Unless you’re a fan of Aladdin, I think the answer is “not sure” – which, to be fair, was the most popular response.

divedivedive · 2015-12-18T13:28:53.000Z

Or they’re just from the Randy Newman school of international relations.

Incendiary_Lemon · 2015-12-18T13:29:34.000Z

Fishbreath:

PPP asked the questions in a very leading fashion, too: the previous four or five were about terrorism. Most people trust pollsters not to ask dumb gotcha questions.

Yeah … that’s a bit unbecoming.

Nesrie · 2015-12-18T13:34:35.000Z

Aleck:

Unless you’re a fan of Aladdin, I think the answer is “not sure” – which, to be fair, was the most popular response.

But I am sure. I am sure it’s not a real country. I think the survey was badly written.

Tin_Wisdom · 2015-12-18T15:09:50.000Z

PPP typically throws in a silly question into many of their polls, like who would you prefer: Putin or Dog Poo?

That doesn’t excuse the horror that is the rest of the poll:

Do you believe that thousands of Arabs in New Jersey cheered when the World Trade Center collapsed on 9/11 or not?

Yes: 36%
No: 35%
Not Sure: 29%

Would you support or oppose banning Muslims from entering the United States?

Support: 54%
Oppose: 25%
Not Sure: 21%

Would you support or oppose creating a national database of Muslims in the United States?

Support: 46%
Oppose: 37%
Not Sure: 17%

These are “likely GOP primary voters”, not necessarily Trump supporters. If you narrow that down to those that favor him as a candidate, the “positive” answers goes to 49%, 82%(!) and 66%, respectively.