While Citizens United was IMHO a terrible decision, these aren’t completely black and white issues. Under the law, corporations DO have some rights equivalent (to a degree) to people. Ditto for the money and speech equation.

The problem with Citizens United is the idea that elections won’t be unduly influenced by the finding(s) (that restricting money in elections is a restriction of speech) and that corruption will be checked. It was a false assumption by the Court upon which the swing vote(s) depended. As such, stare decisis acquires a very different context for the (potential) abridgement of the decision.

Note that in many ways this also applies to Roe v. Wade and its dependency upon the “Right to Privacy” the Court found (between the lines) in the Constitution - hence the Conservative push to get judges to continually re-examine that decision.

Suppose that a Republican Congress made it illegal to donate money towards certain political causes, say abortion rights and gun control. Other causes, such as gun rights and anti-abortion, would remain unrestricted.

If money were not as protected as speech, what would stop them from enacting such a law?

It’s already being done with Union dues.

I’m pretty sure you can still send a $100 check to any union in America, as a gesture of your support.

Whether that union has much bargaining power is another matter.

Ultimately, the biggest threat to our democratic system is not that people are spending money on political ads.

It’s that the vast majority of the electorate is effectively mindless.

The only reason why spending money has an impact is because people believe crap that has no basis in reality. That flashing lies in front of them makes them believe it, because they are dumb as rocks.

It’s already being done with Union dues.

No, what they’re doing with Union Dues is that they’re saying you can’t be FORCED to give them money… Generally, with the same basis, in that you are effectively having your own political speech infringed upon if you are being forced to give money to people who are saying things you don’t agree with.

One of the first rules of Magick: Whatever I tell you three times is true.

If advertising and marketing didn’t work they wouldn’t spend such large quantities on it.

Except that Fair Share dues for Collective Bargaining benefits have long been enshrined in law (Supremes ruled on this in 1977 in Abood v. Detroit Bd. of Educ.)

It’s not because they’re dumb, it’s because they’re human.

One person, one vote. A functioning democracy is dependant on that equation. If $100 million dollars is required to run for office, and one person provides you with that sum, who are you going to be beholden to? The person who gave you the $100 million, or everyone else you represent? (There is nothing preventing you from winning an election based off appealing to broad interests - and then promptly ignoring them in favor of the person giving you the money.) When wealth accumulates in a small percentage of the population, it is those who have that wealth and only their interests that supercede everyone else’s. This has happened repeatedly throughout history, and (spoiler) it never ends well. If everyone has the same limit imposed (which is necessarily arbitrary and never completely fair), then speech is not being prohibited.

Principles and rights should never be so rigid and monolithic that they ignore the harm caused by their unrestricted application.

Because we are not banning money, we are limiting it so that everyone has the same reasonable (which yes, I know, define reasonable) limit.

I won’t argue this point :)

On the other hand, you don’t want someone who is beholden to the mob.

Because we are not banning money, we are limiting it so that everyone has the same reasonable (which yes, I know, define reasonable) limit.

But again, you are effectively limiting their ability to speak their minds.

Can I buy an ad in the paper? A commercial? What about media outlets? What about websites on the internet? All those things cost money. Is it that it’s OK to spend money to voice your opinion, if you spend it in certain ways?

Edit: Oops, cross post.
The campaign buys the ad, the commercial, etc. et al from money they’ve raised from donors.
See for example Bernie Sanders. He raised $20 million in January, average contribution of $27.00
We chip in, the campaign does the campaigning. That’s representative democracy.
It is fundamentally a question of fairness. On that I am sure we will not agree. :)


Here’s a fascinating article on Vox from some psychological researchers (with an unfortunately clickbait title: Donald Trump supporters think about morality differently than other voters. Here’s how.) http://www.vox.com/2016/2/5/10918164/donald-trump-morality
Long, but really worth reading.

The premise for their Moral Foundations Theory:

[ul]
[li]Care/harm: We feel compassion for those who are vulnerable or suffering.[/li][li]Fairness/cheating: We constantly monitor whether people are getting what they deserve, whether things are balanced. We shun or punish cheaters.[/li][li]Liberty/oppression: We resent restrictions on our choices and actions; we band together to resist bullies.[/li][li]Loyalty/betrayal: We keep track of who is “us” and who is not; we enjoy tribal rituals, and we hate traitors.[/li][li]Authority/subversion: We value order and hierarchy; we dislike those who undermine legitimate authority and sow chaos.[/li][li]Sanctity/degradation: We have a sense that some things are elevated and pure and must be kept protected from the degradation and profanity of everyday life. (This foundation is best seen among religious conservatives, but you can find it on the left as well, particularly on issues related to environmentalism.)[/li][/ul]
A graph:

But it revealed something else: Despite often being portrayed as opposites (Rubio is “establishment”; Cruz isn’t), and Cruz being seen as more aligned with Donald Trump, Rubio and Cruz actually draw from voters with a similar moral profile. Each would probably be doing better in the polls if the other weren’t in the race

The premise of their Moral
Cruz and Rubio draw the extreme proportionalists — the Republicans who think it’s important to “let unsuccessful people fail and suffer the consequences,” as one of our questions put it. Bush and Huckabee attract those who are not so focused on enforcing proportional fairness. Trump and Paul fall in between on this dimension.

One surprise in our data was that Trump supporters were not extreme on any of the foundations. This means that Trump supporters are more centrist than is commonly realized; consequently, Trump’s prospects in the general election may be better than many pundits have thought. Cruz meanwhile, with a further-right moral profile, may have more difficulty attracting centrist Democrats and independents than would Trump.

One last interesting finding: Jeb Bush supporters are closest to the average American voter, despite the fact that his campaign has thus far has failed to gain any traction among Republican primary voters.

And finally their conclusion:

Politics is in many ways like religion: Voters reward candidates who are effective preachers for a set of moral concerns. Candidates who understand this realize that electoral campaigns are not won just by articulating the most effective policy responses to the pressing issues of our time — they are not even won by appealing to self-interest.

Rather, an effective political preacher offers a clear moral vision of America. That vision includes a historical narrative about where we went wrong, and then tells us how we can set things right. It also includes strong moral arguments that connect with and validate the moral judgments of voters.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-supreme-court-union-fees-20160111-story.html

The SCOTUS has recently heard a case to decide if union dues for collective bargaining can be required by public employee unions.

It’s starting to look like I was wrong about Rubio in New Hampshire. He’s in second now and assuming he has a good day I’d say he’s the favorite to win the nomination at this point. Which is big trouble for the Democrats as I think Rubio gives the Republicans their best chance of winning the general.

TRUSTED

A transrectal ultrasound (TRUS) is an ultrasound technique that is used to view a man’s prostate and surrounding tissues. The ultrasound transducer (probe) sends sound waves through the wall of the rectum into the prostate gland, which is located directly in front of the rectum.

Can you swear in said Ads? Can you buy a TV ad for Cigarettes? Are Knowingly False Ads OK?

We do allow some bans of money/speech for the public good, and the Supremes in CU said that corruption is a public good for which money/speech can be regulated, it was just that they didn’t think that CU would have a corrupting effect without coordination, and they certainly appear to have been wrong in that thought.

I liked the article, but it seems to fall completely on the nature side of the nature vs. nurture equation. E.G. Support for Sanders’ ‘care’ positions. These will vary according to the (perceived political) environment. What is right in one environment is not right in another environment. Continuing an example, I think that right now, Sanders’ economic policies (in the wake of the economic collapse and the subsequent failure in addressing so many of the apparent causes of that collapse) would be more appropriate than say Cruz’s. However, that doesn’t always place me on the Care side, it just does now.

If Rubio takes it and loses in the General, look to the next Republican presidential primary to be even crazier. More “we weren’t conservative enough”.

But I wasn’t asking about what you wanted to do. I’m asking about what the next group of people will do, after you’ve thrown out the idea that money is a form of speech.

Because after you’ve achieved your “reasonable” goals, there’s nothing to stop your opponents from trying to enact goals which they consider “reasonable”. And to many people, criminalizing donations to Planned Parenthood sounds pretty reasonable.