Presidential Race 2016

[Pyperkub]

Wow, I’m surprised the Sanders campaign is aiming that high. A lot of his political savvy comes from his ability to package bigger ideas in catchy soundbites. Or is 11th grade reading level more about grammatical competence than it is about complexity?

I think it’s more about Bernie - it’s who he is. He’s not going to speak down to the electorate, he’s going to be Bernie.

[Tim_N]

So the latest polls have Sanders tied with Clinton in Nevada (the next primary state for the democrats), and behind by 18 points in South Carolina (which is still a big improvement over the recent past).

RealClearPolitics - 2018 Election 2016 Presidential Polls

[HumanTon]

Rubio made a terribad ad about “Morning in America” which starts with … a shot of Vancouver harbor! Perhaps, like Cruz, he’s secretly Canadian.

But that’s not why it’s a terribad ad. First, it’s a callback to a 34-year old Reagan ad, but it’s a reference that only hardcore political advertising geeks will ever get, leaving everyone else to wonder why a relentlessly downbeat ad keeps talking about “morning in America.” Second and most importantly, it ends with the horribly written phrase, “Why would we ever want four more years again of that?” (You can practically hear the announcer rolling his eyes as he’s asked to say it.)

I guess Rubio knows it’s terribad, as the announcer never bothers to say his name, and the ad never shows his face.

[Dan_Theman]

So the latest polls have Sanders tied with Clinton in Nevada (the next primary state for the democrats), and behind by 18 points in South Carolina (which is still a big improvement over the recent past).

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

There were some real zingers in that one poll, however, like this:

While Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, the Clinton Foundation received millions in foreign donations and did not disclose them, despite her promising President Obama that she would do so. Does this make you more or less likely to support her?
… followed with a question on how important trust is.

[Tim_N]

There were some real zingers in that one poll, however, like this:
… followed with a question on how important trust is.

A horrible poll question, but if the document was ordered the same as the actual poll, then this was asked after the question about support as well as trustworthiness. So perhaps the contamination was limited.

[Timex]

Rubio made a terribad ad about “Morning in America” which starts with … a shot of Vancouver harbor! Perhaps, like Cruz, he’s secretly Canadian.

But that’s not why it’s a terribad ad. First, it’s a callback to a 34-year old Reagan ad, but it’s a reference that only hardcore political advertising geeks will ever get, leaving everyone else to wonder why a relentlessly downbeat ad keeps talking about “morning in America.” Second and most importantly, it ends with the horribly written phrase, “Why would we ever want four more years again of that?” (You can practically hear the announcer rolling his eyes as he’s asked to say it.)

I guess Rubio knows it’s terribad, as the announcer never bothers to say his name, and the ad never shows his face.

This as was terrible.

[Incendiary_Lemon]

But that’s not why it’s a terribad ad. First, it’s a callback to a 34-year old Reagan ad, but it’s a reference that only hardcore political advertising geeks will ever get, leaving everyone else to wonder why a relentlessly downbeat ad keeps talking about “morning in America.”

Rubio is pastiche of GOP orthodoxy, so I think it’s fitting that they would do the same thing with one of his campaign ads.

[Scott123]

Oh, without a doubt. I should’ve addressed that aspect of your earlier post when I replied. Those 10s of thousands, if not 100s, of deaths. . .we couldn’t care less about. It’s just a number on a page, and for a lot it’s just dead Arabs/Muslims, so we made the world better in their jaundiced view.

Just one more tiny bit to add onto the disaster that is Iraq - as of February 15, some journalists now starting to call the August 2014 massacre of Yazidis by Islamic State a genocide. Approx 5,000 civilians killed, 35 mass graves so far, estimated 3,500 women and children/girls sex slaves. 13 year olds raped up to 20 times a day, though some hundreds managed suicide.

No escape from Mount Sinjar: The forgotten Yazidis | The Star

But Saddam was a monster too! Right! Right?

[Timex]

Just one more tiny bit to add onto the disaster that is Iraq - as of February 15, some journalists now starting to call the August 2014 massacre of Yazidis by Islamic State a genocide. Approx 5,000 civilians killed, 35 mass graves so far, estimated 3,500 women and children/girls sex slaves. 13 year olds raped up to 20 times a day, though some hundreds managed suicide.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/02/15/no-escape-from-mount-sinjar-the-forgotten-yazidis.html

But Saddam was a monster too! Right! Right?

Out of curiosity, do you believe that withdrawing from the region has anything at all to do with the rise of ISIS?

[Murbella]

I don’t think you can ascribe this to one party. Clinton’s foreign policy looks a lot like Rubio’s for example. I’d also point to the Right to Protect crowd.

I don’t feel safe with anyone as president who doesn’t admit Iraq was a mistake because it makes me feel they will do it again.

[Murbella]

Out of curiosity, do you believe that withdrawing from the region has anything at all to do with the rise of ISIS?

The problem with this line of thinking is that we had no choice given the situation we were placed in. I haven’t heard any long term plan for Iraq other than “Occupy it until the end of time” and that is not a viable strategy, especially when we get nothing out of it.

[Scott123]

Out of curiosity, do you believe that withdrawing from the region has anything at all to do with the rise of ISIS?

Of course. I also believe withdrawal had broad public support and people were tired of, make that disgusted with, casualties.

[Timex]

The problem with this line of thinking is that we had no choice given the situation we were placed in. I haven’t heard any long term plan for Iraq other than “Occupy it until the end of time” and that is not a viable strategy, especially when we get nothing out of it.

Well, presumably you could say that you would get… Not ISIS out of it. Kind of like how we have troops in Korea to help keep the peace.

I mean, you can say that we had “no choice”, but clearly we did have a choice. We could have kept trips in the region. We choose not to.

In retrospect, that choice appears to have been a mistake.

Now, it’s being a mistake doesn’t make the Iraq war any less of a mistake. It’s not like some sort of nonsensical, " but he did it too! " matters. But at the same time, it seems like we may have compounded one error with another.

[Destarius]

Sometimes there are no good choices. Maybe bad ones and less bad ones. Which lives are more important, US soldiers or those of Yazidi civilians?

[Murbella]

Well, presumably you could say that you would get… Not ISIS out of it. Kind of like how we have troops in Korea to help keep the peace.

I mean, you can say that we had “no choice”, but clearly we did have a choice. We could have kept trips in the region. We choose not to.

In retrospect, that choice appears to have been a mistake.

Now, it’s being a mistake doesn’t make the Iraq war any less of a mistake. It’s not like some sort of nonsensical, " but he did it too! " matters. But at the same time, it seems like we may have compounded one error with another.

I don’t believe this is supported at all.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and know when to quit from a no win situation (IE you’re down $10,000 in vegas and instead of cashing in your grandfather’s watch, you go home in shame). Compare the effects of leaving now to having a SIGNIFICANT troop presence in Iraq, propping up the government and doing most of the military actions, for the next hundred years. Not to mention that we will still be at the same point we are now then, with the government collapsing as soon as we pull out, because none of the strategies were effective at making Iraq able to stand on its own. All we did was maintain the situation, not improve it.

It would be different if ANYONE had ANY idea or strategy to improve Iraq towards an end goal of pulling out.

[Pyperkub]

Out of curiosity, do you believe that withdrawing from the region has anything at all to do with the rise of ISIS?

We didn’t have much of a choice unless we wanted to be a hostile occupying force: the democratically elected government we created wanted us out.

[zx81-Amd64]

Pity Rumsfeld & co. couldn’t grasp this simple notion when it mattered. Or perhaps they did, and decided it would be to their political advantage to suffer more and worse attacks and to put the country on a war footing to secure power…

Bingo (part 1). It’s ALL about money and power, obviously it is. So what to do when you realize your country is being used by individuals for personal gain, and at all your expense (lives/taxes etc). You don’t give them the power in the first place…perhaps?

[Wallapuctus]

God help me, but I wanted to applaud Trump after this weekend. Calling out the catastrophe of the Iraq war, to Jeb! Bush’s face no less, was fucking awesome. He’s the only politician, ever, who has had the balls to say what needed to be said on Iraq. It’s not enough to say it was a mistake, he straight up said Bush lied and fucked the world up for a generation.

If that wasn’t enough, then the next day he holds a press conference to talk about how full of shit Ted Cruz is. Once again, how many politicians have the guts to get up and take un-screened questions from reporters for an hour and just cut straight through the bullshit both parties feed us on a daily basis?

Can’t Stump the Trump. If it weren’t for all the horrible things he’s said earlier, and the general lack of any policies besides “build the wall” and “we’ll be so great and so strong” he’d have my vote.

[Stepsongrapes]

Can’t Stump the Trump. If it weren’t for all the horrible things he’s said earlier, and the general lack of any policies besides “build the wall” and “we’ll be so great and so strong” he’d have my vote.

It frankly isn’t that hard to just criticize. Trump’s gig is the same as the Tea Party approach: simply attack. They put nothing out there to fill the vacuum, though.

One reason that politicians are cautious is because they know what goes around comes around. Trump has no record and seems to give a damn about actually doing anything.

I don’t think it’s all that admirable to simply shrilly complain about everything, post-facto. When “telling it how it is” simply consists of sitting back and then attacking mistakes of others isn’t being presidential. Likewise, hypocrisy isn’t all that presidential. Yes, Cruz is full of shit, but no more so than Trump. Trump simply distracts from his crap by pointing to the crap of others—and his base is too idiotic to give a damn about the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance of the approach.

[HumanTon]

Can’t Stump the Trump. If it weren’t for all the horrible things he’s said earlier, and the general lack of any policies besides “build the wall” and “we’ll be so great and so strong” he’d have my vote.

Hmmm … I don’t agree with his Bart-killing policy. … But I do agree with his Selma-killing policy …