I for one welcome our orange overlords.

I think the scenario where a brokered convention would come into play would be if the establishment realized that the election was lost but felt that Trump would be too toxic to the party’s long term reputation. It would be a short term sacrifice in the hopes of hitting the reset button. It would likely have the effect of driving Trump’s supporters out of the party which would wound them for sometime to come but perhaps not as much as allowing Trump’s supporters to gain a foothold in the party.

I suspect, however, that enough of the establishment will rally behind Trump out of party loyalty. It will certainly be a good test to see if there is anything they value above party loyalty. McCain and Christie have already gotten in line. He’ll probably be pulled to the side and told that it’s okay to be fascist but that he needs to tone down the overt fascism because it’s bad for the brand. Maybe put a mask on it like that lizard Cruz.

The sad thing is that he’s probably not wrong. Both are losing hands but at least one of them doesn’t burn the party down.

Honestly, I think the party uniting behind Cruz could indeed be what burns the party down, or at least splits it asunder. It would be completely shunning those that supported Trump. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Republicans without the Trump brand of nuts suddenly become a significantly smaller party.

Frankly, the party clearly needs to be split apart.

I don’t care about people who want xenophobia and fascism. They can go start their own messed up party if they want that.

Of the Republicans broke away from the crazy folks, maybe they could get back some of the moderates.

Agreed. The irony of it all is that I think Cruz’s theocratic notions should follow suit and join up with the crazies.

Agreed. Remember, Cruz isn’t liked in the party either.

Ultimately, this is the best possible outcome from all of this. It shatters the GOP and the political party system gets mixed up enough that we get a new, modern conservative movement made of young conservatives who aren’t crazy.

Because every conservative I know under the age of 40 is with me on this… We do not want to be associated with this party any more. I do not want to be associated with a group where 60% of the members want to ban entry into our country based on religion. I don’t want to be associated with people who have no respect for basic rights.

But I’m not a Democrat. I don’t agree with them any more that I did before.

The closest thing at this point would probably be the libertarians, but they are too wrapped up in ideological purity, and need to moderate their platform with pragmatism. Maybe they would, if the GOP shatters and moderation had a real benefit for the libertarians.

Right now though, we clearly need something to give. The GOP is clearly broken, seemingly irreparably so.

I wonder who would be left over after all the crazies leave?

No, no, let’s go with the original Eric Carmen version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzoazPPC7b8

Showing my age here. :/

I must concede that your selection is far better than mine.

I’ve met alot of crazy young right-wing people (crazy left-wing people too, I think I am a socialist but wouldn’t get within 50m of the “socialist alternative” social club at my university), not sure why you’re pinning your hopes on the GOP youth. To be honest you and the rest of the small group of semi-reasonable Republicans are better off joining the Democrats at this point and supporting moderates during the primaries.

If it breaks I imagine it would split into 3 parties:

the trump supporters/and types who want to burn down government instead of govern
the religious right
the rest (socially moderate / fiscally conservative ?)

How does it work though? We don’t seem to have a system where more than 2 parties are really viable. Can we get a coalition government formed similar to the way they do in the parliamentary systems? It’s not like people don’t have a wide spectrum of opinions in this country, so it should have already happened by now. As we currently stand we are one party away from single party rule, and if the Republican party split that is probably what we will have for some time. Or does the Democratic party fracture as well?

What I would like to see in a party is one that is socially moderate/liberal, and is fiscally responsible (not necessarily conservative). Meaning I don’t have a problem with a government funded program, but I think if we truly want something we should be willing to foot the bill and that should not always be at the expense of something else that the people have deemed necessary.

My hope is that if the Republican party does split is that people like Hannity and Limbaugh become irrelevant, and Norquist and his moronic pledge disappear.

Pipe dreams, I know. :)

Timex – You’re talking about the elites of the party splitting from the base of the party. Which is fine–you’ll probably have a lot more reasonable people and a lot more consistent policy positions. You also won’t have anything resembling a winning coalition. You’ll be the Libertarian Party with fewer drugs and more foreign wars. The corporate donors will look at your party and say “Great ideas, but we’re not wasting our money.”

Now, you might be happier in the political wilderness with like-minded people and, sincerely, that’s cool. But if your party can’t figure out what it has to offer to working-class people–who came out of eight years of George Bush and Bill Frist and Tom Delay having been pretty much shit upon–then it’s going to be a long camping trip in that desert. Bring a lot of water.

I’m a conservative, but I have a very different view. The sundering that’s happening is a product of the common Republican orthodoxy being unable to actually help your average Joe. We can say that productivity is up and wages are up, but cost of living is too, and anyway it certainly feels that the prosperity some are gaining isn’t proportionately getting to everyone. Massive immigration hurts these people–it strikes at their livelihoods, that of their young adult children (even if it were true that “Americans won’t do some jobs” (it’s not), working-class parents will force their teenage kids to do those jobs, at least they would before they became known as immigrant jobs!). None of that’s the immigrants’ fault (they get hurt in the next generation), but it is the fault of those who can’t create a healthy immigration system, or refuse to, because a glut of workers means cheaper labor for bigger business.

The whole alliance of so-called conservatives with big business is the charade that is finally cracking. Globalism makes lovely charts and graphs that go up and to the right, but it hasn’t helped a lot of these Americans, it’s given them a bunch of cheap garbage to spend their money on (they can’t afford a family vacation, so may as well get a big old tv and an Android phone and some cheap takeout), and it has turned abject poverty into exploitation in the third world. There’s nothing conservative about big business or a global economy. Liberalism has made its peace with globalism and just wants to balance it out with governmental regulation. At least there’s some kind of balance there (although it ends in Hillaire Belloc’s Servile State). Republican style conservatism says let’s hollow out the formerly reliable structures of family and church and neighborhoods by promoting a mobile labor market… Can’t find a job? Pick up and move! Heaven forbid you learn to love the place you live, lay down roots, pass it along to your children and grandchildren for them to love. The corporation that trained you to do what it needs to profit is moving to Albuquerque, so I hope you like Albuquerque… or greeting at Wal-Mart. Not only is your livelihood threatened, but the support structures that used to help you maintain your pride and your sanity through hard times–the church, the knitting circle, the extended family–have been shredded by displacement.

Of course, there is more to the Republican orthodoxy than a globalized corporate economy. But wars in the middle east and the war on terror haven’t done much for the average Joe, either, just taken away kids’ fathers and mothers.

This party deserves to implode. I hope to hell it doesn’t take a president Trump to make it happen, because he’s a fraud who would do far more harm than good. But just because Trump is awful doesn’t mean his opponents are the ones who deserve to win out. Trump supporters have a real grievance. They may have been baited with racist explanations for their troubles; those should be repudiated. But it doesn’t help them to go back to capital gains tax breaks and free trade agreements, as if the only way to help the common American is by flushing corporations with cash to spend on their labor.

A conservative party needs a plan to stitch the social fabric back together. Help and promote families. Make small businesses more viable (which means kinking the big business’ hoses). Foster competent, serious local and state government bodies. Don’t fall for the liberal fetishization of federal power. Promote agriculture, by Americans and for Americans. Encourage workers’ ownership of firms. Stop shoving kids into college who don’t need or want it; let them become plumbers and craftsmen and housekeepers and home builders for their neighbors. Quit zoning sprawling suburbs and strip malls–people need to live someplace they can love, and you can’t love asphalt. Respect our soldiers and their families by employing them in our defense, not in the name of global economic stability. Don’t leave healthcare to big business OR big government; fund organizations close to the sources of need, since they’ll understand those needs better and better serve them.

Well, that’s my party, but admittedly they don’t exist and almost never have in the history of the country (a country built on basically liberal principles). They certainly aren’t Republicans. But sketching out what this party looks like at least reveals (in my opinion anyway) where the GOP has repeatedly failed. Communism, gun control advocates, terrorism… these have been the glue that’s held mostly white working-class people together with capitalist elites. It was bound to start coming apart sometime.

So my friends are causing my legitimate concern.

One of my ultraliberal buddies (a medevac pilot, so screw 'im) posted this:

I messaged him and he said he’s serious. Furthermore, although I’m conservatarian, my brother is also ultraliberal. He’s been talking to me and he said he’s going to write in Bernie if Hillary gets it.

I guess I’m just consistently floored. I feel like Huckabee. “Weird and strange election…”

I’ll believe him when I see the basket of scorpions he has stockpiled away just in case McD’s let’s him down.

I would hope that it’s in jest, but I talked to him and he said that the “establishment needs to be punished if they’re going to learn to listen.”

: - /

But he is a pilot so not a big shock.

You sure he didn’t mean crabs?

If the study of economics taught me one thing, it’s what people say they do or will do and what they actually do are two very different things. All the polls in the world can’t fix that. They’re still useful of course.

They would’ve handily won. By the time we were in it, they already had for the most part. The losses certainly would have been even higher (and they were stratospheric as it was), but they would have won. I mean we basically didn’t really help them until 44’ at which point they’d been winning for a while. We helped the British in Africa, which one could argue helped them indirectly in many ways. Lend Lease won it long before our actual soldiers and bombers did. Well, LL and Hitler’s arrogance.

There’s a story today in Politico that a group of very wealthy GOP donors are looking to saturate Florida “ahead” of the 3/15 primary there with anti-Trump ads.

Problems:

  1. They’ve been talking about doing this in various states and regions since mid-January, and so far this hasn’t gotten farther than “Let’s put on a show, kids!” stage and

  2. 400,000 Republicans have already voted in Florida’s primary as I type this. At least that many, that’s just how many votes have been received thus far.

Yeah… they’re trying to herd cats. There’s no chance that they could get enough people on board, that they could find an effective message, and that they could get it on the air in time to make a difference.

Plus they still have the problem of Rubio. He isn’t selling anything that voters really want.