Criticizing his prowess as a business man is not a personal attack. It’s an objective analysis of literally the only thing anyone has to judge him based on.

If you campaign based entirely on your status as a great business man, then it’s absolutely legitimate to evaluate the veracity of those claims.

Trump’s current supporters may not believe it, but honestly that’s largely immaterial to everything. His supporters do not exist in a fact-based world. They believe tons of things which are objectively false, and they refuse to believe tons of things which are objectively true. Saying, “Trump supporters won’t believe this,” doesn’t actually mean anything.

Didn’t Mitt Romney also finance his and his wife’s time in college by selling a stocks that his father had bought for him?

The fact-free bubble extends well beyond the Trumpistas within the GOP. It’s most of your party, and virtually all of your party leadership. Trump’s just less subtle with his particular brand of bullshit.

I also submit that reducing Trump’s core support absolutely does matter. Without doing so, you’re guaranteed a brokered convention and very likely an open split within the party. As a democrat, that’s fine with me – I’d rather see our candidate win. As an American, that’s also fine – I think the GOP needs to hit bottom before reconstituting itself as a rational, responsible (and essential) part of our government. If I were still a republican, though… ah, nm. I can’t even imagine that :)

What we learned from the early primary season is that Jim Webb has like three supporters, and they’re actually Republicans.

Edit: Breaking … Trump has cancelled his appearance at CPAC, which is like E3 for conservative politics. All the other candidates will be there. I guess the Donald is suffering from low energy.

Oh, No doubt. To be fully honest, the Democrats also choose to ignore things which are inconvenient. But without question, the seemingly institutionalized rejection of facts is one of the greatest failures of the GOP in recent years. Buckley addressed this, and lamented it in his later years, when he saw the neo-cons fully hitching their wagon to the Iraq fiasco.

But as you say, Trump seems to take this to a new level. And in his case, it’s mixed with overt racism, fasism, and xenophobia.

Hey, if that’s how it goes down, then that’s how it goes down.

There is no way to suddenly make a bunch of racist xenophobe drop their racism. Things are almost certainly going to end up in a brokered convention. That’s not the end of the world. It’s happened before.

If it drives off the Trump supporters from the party… Good? I mean, seriously. I don’t want to be associated with them anyway.

I’m sure they wouldn’t want to be assosiated with you either.

If anyone uses Twitter, you owe it to yourself to follow Bruce Bartlett (@BruceBartlett.) Worked in the Reagan White House. His mission is to destroy the Republican Party as currently constituted (which involves Trump gaining the nomination.) He’s fairly active and will often link to interesting articles.

Fair enough. But who do you want to associate with? The GOP appears to be made up of several factions:

  • Business/ Donor class. They want low corporate tax rates, free trade and the ability to operate anywhere in the world without regulations increasing their costs.

  • The Very Rich. They want reduced tax burden on capital gains, high income levels and preservation of inherited wealth.

  • Religious Values Voters. These range from from fairly moderate, genuine concerns into full-bore “gays need to die” and “evolution is a trick of the devil” imbeciles. Climate change denial is split between these folks and the business class

  • Libertarians. These range from fairly (or at least frequently) sensible folks such as Rand Paul to Cliven Bundy asshats

  • The Duped. People who think that the GOP’s policies align with their economic interests, but who never did the math. Some believe that “middle-class tax cuts” mean them, not mostly the top 1%. Others believe that over-regulation is why their jobs left for asia or mexico.

I miss anyone? My descriptions may be a bit unfair, but it sure looks like an odd coalition with many contrary goals to me.

Not that you have any obligation to me, but I’m curious how you would characterize the supporters of the other side of the aisle.

There are many parallels, and I do not believe that the blue seats are filled only with admirable sorts. There is self-interest and cultural arrogance here, too. I see people voting their economic interests (the poor, the middle class and unionized employees) and those voting their cultural values (progressives, minorities, SJW’s).

The major difference is the absence of “the duped.” I don’t see a large group of democrat voters who have been fooled into voting against their self interest by decades of lies.

(I’ve been home rehabbing a back injury for a month – WAY TOO MUCH free time)

You forgot racists.

Yeah. I’d call them the “rightly-disenfranchised”. The GOP has grabbed your racists, your (extreme) nativists, and your anarchist/incurably anti-government types. The last is basically your extreme libertarians.

Well, I think a better way to consider it is what are the core values that the party should stand for, and then the folks who associate with them will flow from that.

As a conservative, I tend to believe that when choosing between liberty and equality, I will lean towards liberty. But this isn’t a binary decision. It’s a pragmatic choice that should be made to maximize utility.

I think that an important thing to bear in mind, that is often ignored, is that the ultimate goal of everyone is (or SHOULD be) to help people. It’s just a matter of how you go about doing it. A good example of this is helping the poor. The best way to help the poor is to grow the economy. Not simply growing stock prices and crap, but to honestly grow the economy, and create more jobs, and increase wages. This will, in my honest belief, help the poor more than any direct government program could ever hope. It also tends to increase revenues that can then be used to pay for the other things that the government spends money on.

So, to that end, I would perhaps be more willing to make decisions that would superficially be seen as “benefiting business”. This, of course, could always be taken to an extreme degree where those policy decisions are poorly targeted. But I believe that doing things that benefit business cannot simply be discounted as “trickle down economics” as is too often the case.

The problems tend to come about when folks abandon detailed, reasoned analysis in favor of dogmatic ideological heuristics. Like when folks say that they are for/against “government spending”. If someone is for or against something as vague as government spending, then they are an idiot… because to think that is to think that it doesn’t matter what you are spending your money on, which is clearly absurd.

This is actually why I like Kasich, because he clearly does think about things on that lower level of detail which is required for real policy making. I certainly don’t agree with him on many things, like his socially conservative positions, but I believe that the most important elements at this point in time are really the economic things, because economic growth makes everyone happier, and that in itself helps relieve some of the stress that’s been building that results in social problems.

This general approach of preferring rationality to dogmatic ideology applies to most of those groups you listed. For things like religion, I believe that having religious values is perfectly acceptable, as long as they are not forced upon others. I do not believe that it is unacceptable for people to display their religious beliefs in the public space, as long as it does not cross the line into discrimination. But I don’t want to be associated with the religious zealots who abandon all rationality in favor of their faith, or who treat people poorly and use their religion as an excuse to do so. As I’ve pointed out, while I’m not a Christian, I believe that the actual tenets of the Christian faith are ultimately good, and beneficial to society, so I have no problem with them.

My approach to most of this stuff, I believe, is appealing to most people. People want economic prosperity and freedom. I think the ultimate goals are universal, folks just may disagree about the details of how to achieve them.

But I am in no way interested in appealing to those who would embrace fascism, racism, or xenophobia. I do not want to pander to those who desire to prop themselves up through oppression of others.

Well, Trump is bailing on CPAC.

This isn’t totally surprising. He has not enjoyed much support among the kind of ideological conservatives that would be there. Indeed, there was word that many people were planning on walking out of his speech in protest of him as a candidate.

However, this is kind of funny:

In a statement, Trump’s campaign said he would be campaigning in Kansas Saturday in advance of that state’s caucuses.

“The Donald J. Trump for President Campaign has just announced it will be in Witchita, Kanasas for a major rally on Saturday prior to Caucus,” the statement read, misspelling the name of both the city and the state where he will appear.

And he says that he actually WON’T order our military to commit crimes and murder innocent civlians, or torture people.

I mean, that’s good. But it seems weird that he was absolutely in favor of it last night.

He also said he didn’t support certain visas, until he did. The man shifts at leisure. Doesn’t hold himself accountable to anything.

He also said he didn’t support certain visas, until he did.

He didn’t support them for OTHER people to use.
But it’s cool for him to hire people on H1B’s. I mean, it’s not against the law. For him.

I think part of the reason they are embracing fascism/racism/xenophobia is that the GOP Conservative economic plan is essentially a backwards one - it wants to shoot for (or at least sell) a vision of a mid to late 20th Century US economy (but with no Unions), when that economy has come and is gone forever. Even if manufacturing comes back to the US, it will be done by robots, not high-school educated Union employees with good wages and job security. Even in China this is happening. They covet what they see everyday (to quote Mr. Lecter) - hispanics with jobs (no matter how menial) as well as celebrity lifestyles, and fear what they see everyday (muslim horrors - no matter that those horrors are extremely unlikely in the US at any kind of scale which would move the needle significantly).

Unfortunately, it seems as if every single GOP candidate is selling this fable as the achievable goal, and that is extremely bad for America (and the World), and not actually looking to address in any way the challenges America faces in the 21st Century. There’s a reason Trump is able to sell this better than the other candidates on force of personality - there is NO other way to sell it - it ain’t happening, and he is the largest cult of personality candidate out there.

This is both creepy, and not at all surprising.
Trump does best in places with the highest death rate of middle-aged white people.

John Edwards, moral failures aside, was right when he talked about two Americas. For poor whites, things aren’t going well and the future looks even more dismal.

While that’s absolutely true, it’s no better for poor [fill in the blank]. What the poor whites haven’t figured out is that they should be collectively working with the other underserved. Instead they look to a Trump who they think will elevate them at the expense of those other groups.