Punch Drunk Love what drugs were you on?

Movies
1

Tom, I have to ask you for whatever you were smoking when you watched this piece of crap. It was one of the worst movies trying to be good that I have ever seen. I knew going in that it wasn’t going to be a typical Adam Sandler movie and that was ok. I figured it would be a decent romantic comedy but all I got before I turned it off about 30 minutes in was horrible. It wasn’t funny or entertaining in any way. Everything was forced and awkward and the writer missed several places for actual decent laughs. Tom and everyone else who recommended this movie owe me that 30 minutes of my life back. Ugh.

– Xaroc

2

Sorry you didn’t like it, Xaroc. I thought it was one of the best films of last year. I don’t know about “funny” or even “entertaining” (at least in the sense you seem to mean it), but it was an amazing portrait of a very particular psyche, and a (ahem, cough, cough) heartfelttestamenttothetransformativenatureoflove. By the end of the film I felt like I’d been in Barry Egan’s head.

I didn’t like Boogie Nights really at all, and I thought Magnolia was an interesting but truly sophomore effort, but Punch Drunk Love took Anderson’s upward trend onto a plane of near-perfect filmmaking.

3

I always find Anderson’s films to start off unbelievably strongly and just plummet as the film goes on. While I did enjoy Punch Druk Love, I found that it really failed to tap a lot of its potential, something that Magnolia was even more guilty of.

4

I loved Magnolia, even if I’ll grant that it was a bit indulgent. It’s so brave and has a sense of pacing I just find relentless and captivating.

“This is the part of the movie where you help me…” delivered by Hoffman (paraphrased from memory).

Gwenovier: What are you doing?
Frank T.J. Mackey: I’m quietly judging you.

Just a terrific script.

I enjoyed Punch Drunk Love, but after it was over was surprised to find I didn’t like it. Or maybe, didn’t like the memory of it. Netflix just got it to me and I’ll watch it again soon… maybe then I’ll understand.

5

Xaroc,

Like most of my favorite movies, I completely understand that someone else might not like it. It’s got a very specific, perhaps rarefied, appeal.

I don’t think it’s a comedy, or even romantic, in any conventional sense. Watching it last night, I was reminded how truly dysfunctional Barry Egan is. He’s not a typical protagonist, which is part of what makes him – and Sandler’s performance – exceptional. His outbursts are kind of scary.

Instead of talking about how he feels, he discloses the pudding plot as token of trust and confidence. Instead of saying ‘I love you’, he admits ‘At the restaurant, I beat up the bathroom’. Like a superhero, he is infused with so much strength that he walks all the way from LA to Provo with a phone in his hand just to tell his antagonist that he has the strength. But not by gamma rays or genetically altered spiders – by love. Presumably, he learns to control his outbursts.

As a movie, I think Anderson did a brilliant and brave job with light, sound, and color. In the commentary track for Hard Eight, he mentions at one point how one of the lights flared up during a shot of Sidney standing over Gweneviere. It was an accident, but he left it in because it happened at a fortuitous moment that fit the action (I think he even cited Truffant as a precedent for this sort of thing). In Punch-Drunk Love, he uses this device constantly, as if it were a stage play, which is the point of the interstitial collages of color and light.

The dialogue is phenomenal. Look, for instance, at the forklift crash scene. It’s as finely crafted and choreographed as any action sequence in The Matrix, and twice as exciting because it’s character driven.

I understand that a lot of folks don’t care for it, but like The Royal Tenenbaums, I get a giddy buzz from Punch-Drunk Love. It’s a bold remarkable movie.

 -Tom
6

Oops, and I just noticed you didn’t get past the first 30 minutes, Xaroc, so I guess I should have posted spoiler warnings… :)

 -Tom
7

No worries. I don’t think I will be going back to it. It was just remarkably lacking in anything I watch movies for. Granted I don’t watch a lot of movies but when I sit down to watch one I want to feel like I am getting something out of it. The first 30 minutes (might have been more it was the part when his sister brings that girl by and he goes in to talk with the stalker phone sex woman) were devoid of what I like in movies. The main character wasn’t likeable at all and I think that is what did it in for me. It seemed like there were some spots where they could have made him more likeable/interesting/funny that they totally blew it in that regard. For example the whole phone sex thing could have been laugh out loud funny but it ended up just being weird and uncomfortable instead.

I do watch a lot of movies on vacation. I saw the Bourne Identity, Minority Report, About Schmidt, Catch Me if You Can, French Connection, Finding Nemo, Spaceballs, Caddyshack, Blazing Saddles, Fletch and 30 minutes of PDL over the 5 days we were away. Other than Spaceballs not aging well and the French Connection’s really bizarre ending I would say I enjoyed them all. PDL just didn’t do anything for me.

– Xaroc

8

This is actually another reason I really love the movie. It was packaged and sold as both an Adam Sandler vehicle and a romantic comedy, so most people who went to see it in the theaters really had no idea what they were in for. Sitting there in the cineplex with the teenaged boys and the dating couples looking for a prepackaged, formulaic good time, I thought to myself, “Wow, P. T. Anderson is really fucking with us! GO MAN, GO!”

Not to say I’m delighting in your being fucked with, Xaroc – clearly he failed in providing the sort of entertainment you were looking for – but it’s so rare that this sort of honest and penetrating expression makes it through the Hollywood labyrinth and into malls of America that I felt like throwing handfuls of confetti and popping a bottle of champagne.

I loved the fact that Barry Egan was a difficult character. For the most part I didn’t identify with him, but the “identification” approach to storytelling is overvalued to the point of banality. For me, Anderson’s main accomplishment was making me feel like what it might be like to be a person like Barry Egan, someone very different from me, and not necessarily funny or interesting or likable (although I did find him likable). I think that’s one of the greatest things of which art* is capable: allowing you to see the world from another person’s perspective.

When he’s lying in bed with Emily Watson and they’re describing the awful, violent things they want to do to one another, I understood what the characters were feeling, even though I had no personal frame of reference for that kind of behavior. Out of context, I think that scene could have really weirded me out, but since Anderson had already, painstakingly, led me into Barry Egan’s head, it made complete sense. As a result, that scene is the most powerful illustration of profound love that I can remember seeing on film.

[size=2]* Take it away, Erik![/size]

9

What about the Zellweger/Cruise back and forth of “you complete me” and “you had me at hello”?

Just kidding.

Although I personally believe you’ve given too much credit to that bedroom scene and Anderson overall. But we’re all entitled to our own opinions.

Personally, when I saw the first five minutes of Magnolia, I thought I was in for the best movie ever made. Then it just slowly disappointed me more and more as it went on.

10

Well, I’ll just chime in and say that I really enjoyed Punch Drunk Love. The one thing that really stood out was the sense of discomfort it gave me as I watched the scenes in which Barry was getting pestered by his sisters. I could literally feel his frustration as a result of all these women invading his privacy. Very rarely does a movie affect me that strongly.

11

The DVD has an alternate cut of how Anderson introduced and built up the sisters, which is much more desultory. There are about six or seven separate scenes in which he’s working busily and gets phone calls from his individual sisters. It’s not nearly as focused.

But I love how it works in the final cut, all the way from the scene where he’s explaining the plungers to his clients (“Barry, your sister’s on line one, Barry, your sister’s on line one.”) to when he breaks the glass at his sister’s party (“You fucking retard!”).

That whole stretch is an example of how the movie works in little carefully crafted arcs with their own cresendoes. And a lot of it is accomplished with sound design and the superb score. The other great arc with its own crescendo is the trip to Hawaii, which gets me every time. Absolutely brilliant.

 -Tom

P.S. “Remember when we used to call you ‘gay boy’?”

12

The DVD has an alternate cut of how Anderson introduced and built up the sisters, which is much more desultory. There are about six or seven separate scenes in which he’s working busily and gets phone calls from his individual sisters. It’s not nearly as focused.

Ah yes. There was one part in that cut sequence that I found to be absolutely priceless - after receiving more phone pestering than he could handle, Barry puts the phone down, walks into the corner and flails for a second or two. I absolutely loved that moment because I could completely identify with it. Come to think of it, just about anyone who works in customer service can probably identify with it.

13

Actually, Saxman, I hated that moment and I was really glad they cut it. I think it was 1) way to early for Anderson to tip his hand about Barry’s outbursts and it would have robbed the glass-breaking scene at the party of its impact, 2) way too internal and mellow an outburst for what follows, and 3) it was better to have him do the conversation with Elizabeth in person, where she backs him into the corner, rather than on the phone.

I much prefer him quietly dealing with his sisters, denying any recollection of being called ‘gay boy’, fidgeting alone, and then doing something dramatic rather than a sort of comic wiggle.

But I do certainly identify with that level of frustration. :)

How about the scene where he’s cussing at the cute little kid? That was waaaaay weird and obviously part of some superstrange earlier take on who Barry Egan was supposed to be.

 -Tom
14

Actually, Saxman, I hated that moment and I was really glad they cut it. I think it was 1) way to early for Anderson to tip his hand about Barry’s outbursts and it would have robbed the glass-breaking scene at the party of its impact

I completely disagree. Barry’s sisters had already mentioned his previous outbursts, so this essentially tipped Anderson’s hand as well, but in a less effective way. I can honestly say that I was not shocked by the outburst at the party - I pretty much saw it coming.

There’s somthing to be said for that slight bit of foreshadowing that the corner wiggle would have provided. I think that foreshadowing is more effective when it comes through the observation of a character rather that just having something stated about him. Although, in this case, the statements did act as more fuel for the fire. :twisted:

Besides, we got pretty good shock value with the introduction of the harmonium, didn’t we? :shock:

How about the scene where he’s cussing at the cute little kid? That was waaaaay weird and obviously part of some superstrange earlier take on who Barry Egan was supposed to be.

That was definitely strange. It was like the bedroom scene, but to the nth degree. A little tooooo much! Cutting that was a wise decision.

15

I completely disagree. Barry’s sisters had already mentioned his previous outbursts, so this essentially tipped Anderson’s hand as well, but in a less effective way.

I don’t think that’s right, Saxman. I recall the glass breaking being the first instance of Barry freaking out. The sisters talk about him breaking glass as a little kid, but I don’t think we get any hint that it’s still a problem. I could be wrong.

I also don’t like the deleted phone call sisters, because it show Barry bustling around at work. He seems busy and even a little efficient. That was weird and it didn’t convey the sense of his life as a still empty wasteland.

Punch-Drunk Love is one of those movies I’d love to see again for the first time. The early movie is a great series of reveals about his character – that he actually does have 7 sisters, that he doesn’t dress this way normally, that the pudding and phone calls aren’t just wacky characterizations, that he’s in deep pain (but not the brooding angsty pain that’s so hip in movies) – and it loses some of the shock and discovery after you’ve seen it once.

Man, now I want to go watch it again…

 -Tom
16

I don’t think that’s right, Saxman. I recall the glass breaking being the first instance of Barry freaking out. The sisters talk about him breaking glass as a little kid, but I don’t think we get any hint that it’s still a problem. I could be wrong.

Yes, the sisters speaking of his outburst as a kid is what I was referring to. I guess I just assumed that it would still be a problem for Barry as an adult. As it turns out, it was.

Punch-Drunk Love is one of those movies I’d love to see again for the first time.

Now, how’s that for an oxymoronic topic? :wink:

“What movie would you most love to watch again for the first time?”

Should start a thread there…

I’m going to have to sift through my collection before giving an answer, though…

17

“What movie would you most love to watch again for the first time?”

Ooh, remember how cool it was watching Aliens before you had pretty much memorized the entire movie? The way the tension kept racheting up and the situation got worse and worse? Man, I’d love to be able to revisit that. And I don’t know about you guys, but I didn’t anticipate the ‘Get away from her, you bitch’ moment with Ripley in the loader.

…oh, I’ll wait for your thread.

 -Tom
18

I just saw this movie the other day and immediatly it jumped up to one of my all-time favourites.

The transformation of Sandler throughout the movie is really something to behold as he slowly slowly kind of opens up and gains strength.
My favourite scene though had to be when he gets fed up with his attackers and just beats the tar out of them… I almost started cheering.

One question though… what exactly is that opening sequence supposed to mean? (the car flipping over, and the harmonium)

Ive had some ideas of it bouncing around… but ive been wondering what you guys thought.

19

Saw this last night - Odd movie, but pretty good on the whole.

After he gets hit in the car and you see that his Girl is bleeding, me and my GF both said “Those guys are so dead” at the same time - was pretty funny.

The forklift crashing scene was probably the most interesting one in the movie because of the way they designed the music to annoy the audience and get them into the same mind set as the protaganist.

20

One question though… what exactly is that opening sequence supposed to mean? (the car flipping over, and the harmonium)

Yeah, the car flipping over is pretty bizarre. Perhaps Barry’s imagination at work? I guess it certainly works as a device to get the viewer’s attention.

The forklift crashing scene was probably the most interesting one in the movie because of the way they designed the music to annoy the audience and get them into the same mind set as the protaganist.

This is something that really stood out for me as well. Throughout the entire scene I felt more and more uneasy as the calls just kept coming in, and the music kept building up. Once that part was over, I had to chuckle to myself just to ‘get out’ of the uncomfortable state the whole scene had put me in.