Woo, that’s more like it! Flying with the recoil is a lot more satisfying than jumping, it controls really well. That weapon is just a bit of a pain to level up. Almost feels like you’d rather not ever use it as a weapon once you have it on level 3, rather than risk it dropping back to level 2 and losing that ability :-D
I’ll take all y’all’s word for it not actually fitting the Metroidvania mold. But I have to push back a bit on the linearity claim. There’s clearly an incentive for level to level backtracking, and huge amounts of mandatory backtracking within a level. Like the bit you mention with returning a certain set of objects to an NPC; I probably ended up respawning the level 10+ times and fought some specific enemies 5+ times.
Yeah, after I said that I realized it’s pretty much totally off-base to say it’s “linear”. There is backtracking in some places and revisiting of a few levels (like Mimiga village). But it doesn’t have that quality that Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night have that defines Metroidvanias. Whatever that is.
Great choice! I’ve played Cave Story a few times through, but I never got invested enough to figure out special end conditions or secret bosses. I share Nightgaunt’s feeling that that sort of stuff is better just read off a wiki then actually discovered in the game. I say that having read it off a wiki and not discovered it in a game though so what do I know. Even without those secrets I liked it enough to play through it a few times. It’s neat how the mechanics develop over the game, and they have cool feeling “secrets” (like the fully powered machine-gun used for hovering).
The recent game Steamworld: Dig reminded me of Cave Story quite a bit. It’s quite a bit different in core gameplay and even gameplay structure, but it felt similar in the way it unfolded. Cave Story introduces itself as a Mega Man style game, but expands to feel bigger then that. Similarly Steamworld: Dig starts by feeling like a stripped down Minecraft with some light platforming in it, but as you build up and continue playing the game ends up revealing itself to be something different. It’s also similar in that, like WarpRattler, I don’t really want to say much about it because there’s a feeling of discovery that I have tied up in appreciation of it. The comparison is really mostly in that feeling of discovery, though.
I can’t see myself replaying Steamworld: Dig, but I’ve played Cave Story now at least 3 times because aside from that feeling of discovery the game just has a great feel to it. I disagree with jsnell, I really like the intense momentum-physics of the movement systems. It’s definitely hard to control at first, but I think that movement feels like it has more personality to it. The character feels more expressive in how he moves then mega-man’s robotic instantaneous acceleration, and the weapons get distinct personality out of that physics as well, plus all the enemies feel really particularly challenging because of the way you move. I understand the complaint. I hated the movement the first time I played Cave Story, but it grows on you.
My equivalent of the wiki is my children, who have now finished the game multiple times and will tell me about all the little secrets I’m missing. They pointed out a tiny little man, as big as a blade of grass, wandering around in the Mimiga cemetery who I’ve never seen before. Apparently he’s key to getting a special gun later in the game. One that my kids immediately told me was not worth it. I guess I’ll trust them?
I’m definitely feeling the difficulty of the movement physics, but these kinds of things get easier the more you play and adapt to them. The thing I always have a problem with is keeping the jump, shoot, and weapon-switching keys straight (I’m playing with keyboard, as Pixel intended). Once I get in a tense situation, my fingers get all mixed up. Hopefully I’ll work that out over time as well.
Cave Story+ has just moved from my steam account’s “6. Never going to bother to play” category! I think I’ve unintentionally bought it about 80 times in different bundles. I’d always thought it would be some trash art SNES wannabe game and so never bothered. Let’s see if I’m right.
ps: Tim claiming that Cave Story basically invented the freeware/Indie scene and rocket jumping has already given the game negative points even before I’ve played it ;)
I could make a snarky post about how I didn’t claim anything and merely mentioned what I had read elsewhere. (And I don’t know where rocket jumping came from.) But this inspired me to look up where I read that. Wikipedia has an entry:
Ah well, not exactly my favorite kind of pick, I must admit.
I pretty much burnt out on platformers long ago, and the kind of platformers I like the least is the ones with obscure exploration and immense repetition…
Anyway, since I suck at these games, I’m already stuck. I got to the village right at the start, and everyone points me to Arthurs house, but it’s locked.
Some empty buildings and some inaccessible areas … and that’s it.
Did I mention I hate games that pull off crap like that?
On the flip side there is, literally, only two routes you can go at this point. Each leads to a single room where you get an item and exit. That said things don’t suddenly get more straightforward, they get more obscure even. It is entirely possible to miss major components, I nearly passed by the area with the missile launcher.
My thoughts on the game are relatively positive so far. I’ve just gotten past the second boss (though I think the first might have been optional). The forcefield bit stuck me for a bit. I died numerous times trying to get the keycard and then back to the terminal to unlock. Sure the answer was a bit obscure, but it could have been worse. I figured out what I needed to do well before I executed properly. Getting the card, then getting back to the main floor was my bane.
Which leads me to my only real complaint, though complaint is overstating the severity a bit. The controls, specifically the jump controls, feel floaty for the degree of precision they seem to require so far. Now perhaps this is due to the other traversal options, since I know eventually get some kind of jetpack type power from one of the guns. It’s why getting the card took multiple tries, I’d either over run and jump under a block, or I’d jump up properly but die because I turned to shoot the enemies and fell back down. I’ve been adjusting, but it’s something I noticed due to the way the game plays.
I do think the game as a whole seems quite carefully crafted. Sometimes in ways less obvious. For example in the egg room there is the save room/ control center for the eggs. There are 16 computer terminals there, most of which say things are ok. There are two that light up red and indicate there is an issue. Now normally this is the kind of detail put in, but not really going anywhere. Cave Story, though, does something with this. I didn’t even realize it until this morning when I started writing my thoughts, but upon reflection those terminals gave meaningful information on how to progress. Granted there are other ways to grok the solution, which I ultimately did without too much fuss, but I find that interesting. I’ll need to be more mindful it seems, the environmental details are not just for flavor. A pleasant surprise, one many games fail at.
It might take a little experience with the game to start reading some of these situations. I had forgotten a lot of this stuff, but I sailed right through it yesterday while replaying the opening.
I kinda have the situation now of it being all familiar enough that I kinda gloss over it, but not so familiar that I don’t, say, miss the rocket launcher at first as I breeze past.
So I played a lot more, and I’ve got to say I’m liking the game more. Enough that it has temporarily pulled me away from Valkyria Chronicles (no small feat). To whomever suggested Megaman being an inspiration I agree. Playing this game I can see the influences everywhere. Megaman is one, Metroid another (the item music is almost a direct riff on the Metroid item music). It is the greatest SNES game never made on the SNES.
A couple of things have me worried though. Namely will I be able to beat it. The game is very combat focused, and I’d been doing fine with that, but the boss at the end of the sand zone gave me fits. Combined with the cutscene right before and I was getting annoyed at that point. I’m just wondering if I’ll get to the end game and get some boss I simply can not defeat.
The other is whether there is some obscure condition I’ve already failed that will cause me to not get to the ‘true’ ending. I know a common trope of games like this is to have secret endings, alternative areas, bonus zones and the like. I expect there is probably something similar here. I don’t mind when the conditions are something you can do in normal ways, it’s when the hidden bit is some obscure thing you wouldn’t get without reading a wiki I’m not a fan. Given the odd item I found, and how I found it, inside the sand zone pub I’ve an inkling that it might be the later.
Right now I’m contemplating having to do a bit of searching as is, I’ve gotten to the boulder chamber and seem stuck. We’ll see if I can sort this out when I get home. Traveling back to the doctor chambers didn’t solve anything, so I’m not sure where to go.
The secret ending concern is a real one. I don’t know the conditions off-hand, but I think there’s a good chance you will get the not-so-good ending (which isn’t a bad ending, but you miss some levels, I believe) if you don’t look up some info on the internet.
What’s the boss that game you trouble? Is it the rolling tank-tread thing? I hate that thing. Most of the bosses are tricky, but few are that hard. And there’s a lot of cool things to see in upcoming levels, so stick with it!
Oh, and yeah, the game has a lot of terrible save points before bosses, making them obnoxious to replay and replay. One of its (forgivable) sins.
The boss is the red flower one. The tank wasn’t too bad actually. Level 3 sword chewed that up nicely. I actually like the boss design a fair bit. There is no one ‘I win’ weapon for them. The first boss in the sand level (the one that shoots up a bunch of orbs, the antlion type one) kicked my butt until I tried the level 3 bubbler on it. That destroyed it. Yet the bubbler on the tank was not very effective. While both of those bosses were a little difficult for me, the red flower was the one that really drove me nuts, though it was partially me not adjusting properly. That one hurts a lot, without much chance for regen.
The music? It’s decent. Hey, I’m the wrong person to ask that question if you want a glowing endorsement, I’m an (admitted) music snob ;)
I do love the item music being a riff on Metroid though. That made me smile.
Speaking of weapons though, there is nice variety. I do find that I almost never use the missile launcher except on bosses though. That said a level 3 machine gun is a nice traversal option. makes life a lot easier.
There is a true ending, and it is very obscure, but I really wouldn’t worry about it. It’s a challenge mode for experts. You have to beat a difficult gauntlet level and two extra bosses. The normal ending is perfectly reasonable.
There are some tough bosses, sorry. I don’t remember them well enough to give you an idea about relative difficulty. They’re not brutally difficult and designed to make you cry, but like Megaman they are going to test you. I usually find that I can tolerate that if I embrace it early on.
Thanks Tim and Nightgaunt. Given your feedback I went ahead and peeked to see what obscure actions were needed, and I just passed my opportunity to do them (literally my last save was about 10 seconds after the point at which I can no longer do so). It is precisely the kind of odd thing that almost no player would do in the sequence of regular play.
Oh well. Guess there’s nothing much I can do about that then.
That said it does seem I may have encountered a bug. Not 100% sure, but it seems that a character that is supposed to aid me did not properly do so. I had done the task I was supposed to, but they are stuck in the clinic. Hmm, I need to see if I can proceed, hopefully I just need to talk to them to trigger it. I thought I did that last night, but maybe not. I hope I’m not stuck, that would suck.
Oh, I died several times, make no mistake. It took me about 3 times to realize how to damage it. Once I discovered how effective the sword was on it though it only took me two tries to take it down. So it’s the good type of hard boss design in my book. Figuring out what to do is most of the battle.
Got through the Sand Zone and most of the Labyrinth today.
I think the Sand Zone is where the game really comes into its own. I think I said this earlier, but there are so many little bits in the game that were cooked up just for one moment or one passage, it’s astounding. The sand gators that pop out of the sand (when there are bones there)? The birds carrying the alligator skulls? The alligator skulls with two legs which hobble around when you blow one off? I don’t think any of these mechanics are used anywhere but here–I could be wrong. No one sane would make a game with that many bespoke elements in it. You’ll never carry anything around in the game like you carry around those dogs. No creatures repeat in the game except (that I’ve seen so far) different variations on those blobby guys, but even those variations are quite different. Just a lot of imagination and craft going on in this game, it’s wonderful.
I didn’t trade my Polar Star for the Machine Gun, despite loving that weapon. My kids have been giving me tips on how to get a weapon or two I’ve never gotten before.
I did manage to beat Monster X (the tank) on my first try, which was satisfying because I remember giving up on him in the past.
So I finished the game over the weekend. Alright finished may be the wrong term. I got to the final boss, round 4 of boss fights with no saves, before I died. I had the one use healing item (which I had forgotten I had), so I probably could have won if I’d have remembered to use that. Still I don’t see much value in beating my head against that particular wall, so I just watched the ending on youtube.
The game is quite good, and was a great pick.
It is short, but packs plenty of imagination. It is, in many ways, the best kind of tribute to some games I really loved from the 16bit era. It pays homage to the greats, while not being so beholden to them that it merely hides in their shadow. The weapons are nicely varied, and have plenty of quirks. There is no one weapon that fits for all situations, and I used them all regularly. Well except the missile launcher, that was basically only on bosses.
The obscurity of the alternate ending will likely not be something I go for. There are several secrets I know of that I skipped, but nothing too huge aside from the ending. I don’t see myself coming back to this any time soon, but perhaps in a few years I might.
