Qt3 Games Podcast: Forza Horizon 4, Loop Hero, Animal Crossing: New Horizons

Shitty/short/pithy/petty answer: I would have also accepted a “You are entirely correct and I bow to your obviously enormous and also weirdly sexy brain, Mando.” ;-)

Well, “What makes games work?” and “What makes games work for Tom Chick?” are very different questions (and neither goes so far as, to paraphrase, “Is it actually a game?”). As I noted to Bob later on in the thread, it might well be a game you don’t care for, and that’s super okay! I can’t stand Dark Souls and its various spawn, but can also happily acknowledge that they’re well-designed games for their target audience, and that they’ve brought millions a great deal of happiness and enjoyment. They’re definitely games, even if they’re precisely the kind of games I lose interest in all of about six seconds in.

Well, jeeze, just say that next time instead of leveling a cruel and thoughtless accusation at my primary digital source of dopamine for the worst year of my life :P

Which is probably a good summary of my personal opinion of Animal Crossing: New Horizons, for what it’s worth!

Man, who could have predicted that saying “Because it’s fun!” to Tom Chick would get his dander up! Almost like the initial answer was deliberately trolling. . . but no, certainly not Armando “Serious as a Heart Attack” Penblade!

For what it’s worth, I think dictionary-defintion-of-game is about the last interesting possible way to examine a game. All it likely leads to are “As you can see, the chicken is clearly a man!” style, as you put it, pedantry. No definition of anything like a reasonable length is fully immune to bullshit counter-examples and similar nonsense.

On the other hand, outside of this thread and one other where it was argued in the last couple of years on these boards somewhere, I have to admit that across my entire life, I’d given exactly 0 thought to the question of “What is a game?” in my life. It always struck me as one of those self-evident things, like Potter Stewart’s proverbial pornography. The nearest I’ve come is snickering at BECMI-idolater TTRPG grognards decrying the new generation of indie storygames as “fake RPGs,” just because they lacked some defining-in-the-grognards’-eyes characteristics, like stats, or dice, or character sheets, or monsters. And, obviously, those people are silly and stuck in the past, so not worth thinking about their arguments much :)

So, to help guide an answer to the originally posed remark, I doodled around for a bit on other internet discussions around the topic. Pure dictionary definitions were obnoxiously vague, while comparisons against similar-but-vitally-different entertainment categories seemed to establish more measureable guidelines for game-defining.

That said, amusingly enough, of “Provides goals,” “Provides restrictions,” and “Provides an ending condition,” the only one I particularly need to enjoy a game–whatever the hell that might be–is the first. Prior Crossings of the Animals didn’t appeal to me precisely because they were so un-guided. The core loops of ACNH are a little different thanks to the crafting focus, but the main game is still there, intact. The introduction of those little daily goals and the big sprawling achievement board took the latest installment from “neat, but boring” to “digital cocaine” for me, at least.

And if we canonize the implied “…in my opinion” after each of your assessments, I’m fully onboard. Hell, I think I’d even share it sometimes; ACNH’s designers seemed bullheadedly determined to introducing as much annoyance between me and fun as possible at some points (holy fuckin’ goddamn is the crafting interface monumentally horrible).

At its heart, though, it’s an easygoing, laid back, saccharine, pastoral game/experience that isn’t going to ask much of you in terms of dexterity, strategy, or deeper thought, but it is going to positively shower you in encouragement, cuteness, and a continuous stream of minor but effusive praise. It’s The Great British Baking Show or Takenoko or a weirdly good brand of frozen chocolate chip pancakes. And that is awesome. For me :)

Also, even less interesting than “is it fun?” for me would have to be “is it a game?” Nobody ever asks, “Is it a TV show?” or “Is it a book?” If Candyland gets to be a game then even the most non-interactive visual novel does too.

Ugh, I do now recall it cropping up as the various Walking Simulators were rising in popularity (and earning the originally derisive nickname in the process). “Is Gone Home really a game?” they’d say, tut-tutting with deep concern. “Does one actually play Kentucky Route Zero?” “Is this truly the most interesting series of questions I can think of to ask about deeply affecting digital experiences?”`

Setting the AI to “unbeatable” is a start. Like this :

This is one of my tracks, with the AI set as high as it’ll go.

There’s still some cheesing going on as “unbeatable” means you always start the race 12th and if you don’t beat all the AI it’ll be because 1st-through-3rd made a break for it while you were picking your way through 7th-to-4th, (you’ll usually be past 11th-to-8th before turn one because the AI gets away from the line so poorly).

Your Blueprints can be point-to-point or circuit racing for laps and you can set various different limits on what types of cars can be used, and what season and time of day the race happens in.

Sadly, for a game with heavy social theming, there’s no Blueprint leaderboard unless you screenshot your times.

If you want to run that track, go into the Creative Hub, pick Blueprint Events, hit “Search” and then enter the share code 412 040 476.

The car class is forced, but you can pick any car within the class and set the AI wherever you’re comfortable. If you set them to the lowest level the game will start you right at the front and you’ll probably never see the AI again after the first 50 yards, so it’ll be vaguely like running a rally stage.

Absolutely! I’m MelesMeles#1521 :)

Fair warning, I’m not 100% satisfied with every course, but going back and fine tuning them takes a lot of effort, so I’ve honestly just been too lazy to do it.

There’s also a bug when you double back over road you’ve already mapped that will sometimes produce a false “Checkpoint Missed” prompt. It only lasts until you hit the next checkpoint, but it’s the bane of my existence.

I just think it’s really satisfying. I move a few sliders around, I do a little test drive to feel it out, and suddenly an engine that’s been spluttering like a sick emu starts purring at me like a trained leopard.

To give you an example, I bought a Volvo 240, aka Turbo Brick from Art of Rally (I love absolutely everything about the writing in that game) and I put a turbo on it. The added power from the turbo made the wheels spin uncontrollably in low gear, and it would boost me out of my line every time it kicked in in the higher gears, so I lengthened the gears so the turbo would fire more consistently and also have to work harder, and suddenly I had a car, modified and tuned by me personally, that I could actually race.

Figuring that stuff out gives me a real sense of accomplishment. I don’t know how much I need to do it, but taking a car that isn’t running well and “fixing it” is extremely satisfying to me. I feel like I’m a car doctor! I’m like the Cesar Chavez of misfit engines.

You can certainly just download an optimized spec if you’re in a hurry and you just wanna win, but then it also won’t be Tom Chicks car so much as it’ll be hellraiser6789’s car.

I was wondering if you had turned the assists off! I’m exactly the same way. I even disabled ABS because I like to try that old braking technique, where you apply the brakes in short bursts. It’s dumb sometimes because modern cars certainly do have ABS, but it still makes me feel very pro when I do the other thing.

I’m not gonna tell you that every car is exact, and I certainly haven’t spent much time in Lambos or Koenigseggs, but the cars I drive feel very believable to me.

A good example is the Rover Vitesse I mentioned. That’s a heavy luxury car that probably never should’ve been rallied, and I feel that when I drive it. I had to take as much weight off as possible and shorten the gears way down to make it feel even a little bit zoomy. It’s also bigger and heavier than most rally cars, which means that I have to go faster and pull on the wheel a lot harder to throw it around a corner.

I think my best example is the 1970 Camaro that I tried to set up for rallying. I was wondering why no one had tried to rally American cars from that era. They’re powerful and well built, which is generally what you want in a rally car.

But I feel like Horizon answered my question, because the Camaro really feels more like a truck. It’s not very agile, it’s even heavier than the Rover, and when I press the throttle it’s completely obvious that the engine was built to max out long gears on straight roads. It never manages to get angry in any way with the short gears I put on it. It feels bored, like it needs more to pull.

That was a revelation to me, both in terms of why people don’t rally Camaros, and also in terms of how cars are modeled in Horizon. Is it accurate? I don’t know, but it sure felt like it to me.

Sadly there’s no option for time trials, which would be way more realistic in terms of rallying. You always have to race with a field of AI.

I started making my own tracks because the standard ones felt like circuits to me, and I wanted to drive a more authentic rally stage with lots of cuts and corners.

When it comes down to it, rally is about taking corners as fast as you dare. Knowing how much speed to take off before you turn, and knowing when to reapply the throttle coming out. You have to manage your RPMs and keep the engine working as hard as it can through the turn.

I think that’s harder to do in rallying than it is in circuit racing, because the turns tend to be a lot more sudden, there are trees and hazards everywhere, sometimes you have several turns in very quick succession, sometimes they require you to pull a sharp 180, and sometimes you’ll be doing that on dirt, or on snow, or on poorly paved country roads.

No matter how well you know the track or how much you practice, that’s never going to be easy, and that’s the magic of rallying. Anybody can mess up on a turn and end up in a ditch, as a lot of rally drivers do, even on stages they’ve driven hundreds of times before.

Dirt 3 was so obnoxious that it kinda made me give up on the mainline Dirt series. I want to smash my computer with a shovel every time the disembodied skater boy calls me his “amigooo”. What a goddamn nightmare.

I’m a Scandi redneck, so I grew up in rally country, and I generally try to play as many of those games as I can. That goes back long enough for me that Art of Rally gave me flashbacks to the long-forgotten Power Drive for the Sega Megadrive.

I’ve spent countless hours on Art of Rally and the original Dirt Rally. I didn’t like the changes they made with Dirt Rally 2.0. I tried WRC 8 recently but it bounced off me. The driving felt kinda floaty and laggy, and I thought the career mode was a real downer, design wise.

Art of Rally really is a thing of beauty though. It perfectly channels everything of how I feel about rallying and rally cars. It totally gets it.

I have an aversion to games that lean on external rewards. That means, like, achievements or trophies or leaderboards or badges. If a game needs to give me a little ping from my Xbox and add a sticker to my profile so my friends can ogle my progress, then I think it probably is failing to provide good, internal, inherent motivations. I roll my eyes at people who say something like: “I didn’t really enjoy it, but I was close to platinum, so I played for six more hours…”

I often have to remind myself: Common game structures, even people’s definitions and expectations for what gets the label of “game” in the first place are really just conventions that have built up historically. Have you ever run into those people who automatically think a video game happens on a Nintendo or a Playstation, and you have to explain that, no, you play this one on your computer or your phone? Even the community of serious gamers has a box they’ve constructed in their collective head that circumscribes the limits of what games are. But it turns out–even though there certainly are boundaries to what constitutes a game–that box is almost always defined more by our personal encounters with games than with what’s possible.

Which is to say that games that rely on achievements or leaderboards to motivate players simply are not my type of game, and games that don’t provide friction or skill tests aren’t Tom’s.

Well a good chunk of the Codies team behind Dirt Rally upped and formed Playground studios in 2010, Dirt Rally 3 was the first Codies Rally game after they left.

I can tell you from personal experience the Playground guys are every inch petrolheads right down to the bone…

Yep. Playground were originally created from ex-Codemasters guys - along with I think maybe some people from other UK racing-focused devs.

The core is/was definitely Codies though.

The other studio being my old favorite arcade racing game studio: Bizarre Studios, who made Metropolis Street Racer/ the Project Gotham Series.

I agree with all of this, but AC:NH was still my “game” of 2020. It might have lucked out coming out a week after we all hit lockdown, but it was a fabulous ambient stress reliever for my entire household, and still does quite a bit. The entire point is to chill the f out with something that has a myriad of cute, generally well thought out systems to goof around with. It’s not supposed to be a challenge, ramp the difficulty curve, etc.

Totally respect that folks may not like it (I never thought I would, honestly). But the ability to do a rather tremendous amount of things in AC, in 20-30 minute daily time chunks, with a new event/holiday right around the corner, has a zen-like quality that was perfect for this past year.

No way! Are you serious?

Oh man, that makes all the sense in the world.

I don’t doubt that they are petrolheads. I love the driving model in Horizon. Obviously I’m no expert and I’ve never tinkered with a car in real life, but the cars handle exactly the way I’d expect them to.

I think we have the same taste in driving models. I played the everliving hell out of some Gotham. I was really sad when they went away.

WHY CANNOT I LIKE THIS POAST?

Btw I think tom sold me on Loupe Hero.

By the way, this thread is a microcosm of Qt3’s awesomeness, in my opinion. I’ve never played an Animal Crossing and only really dabbled in the Forza games but I really enjoy seeing people who are passionate about their favorite games step in and explain why they love them so much.

Genuinely, yes. I’ve never touched a rally game and don’t really know anything about the sport apart from very vague knowledge of more generalized racing from having grown up around the Bristol Motor Speedway for NASCAR, so that whole segment of the conversation has been entirely novel and deeply fascinating for me :)