Qt3 Movie Podcast: BlacKkKlansman

Spike Lee reminds us there was a time when people in the KKK hid their identities.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2018/08/22/qt3-movie-podcast-blackkklansman/

So I’ll step up to defend the movie a bit.

I really liked the dialogue between Ron and Patrice. It’s using language differently than how I do and it sounds so darn cool to me.

I liked Adam Driver’s moment where he talks about how he never thought about being Jewish, he wasn’t raised Jewish but that he couldn’t stop thinking about it now. I thought it was a powerful little moment.

Kelly, I thought it was going to be totally like Chappelle’s Show. That would have been very funny.

While it was heavy handed, I was glad that there was a happy ending to the movie. I think that maybe it’s good that movies about racism don’t all have to be horrific from start to end. That there could be a happy ending. That there could be a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe people need that now, given how bleak a turn things have taken in real life.

Kelly, was the Martha from the opsis Batman’s and Superman’s Martha, George Washington’s Martha, or kickass Martha Washington from the Frank Miller and Dave Gibbons comic?

I really did love that moment too, and I’m disappointed we didn’t talk more about Adam Driver in the conversation, because in this moment he delivers one of my favorite lines in the movie:

“I’m Jewish, yes…but I wasn’t raised to be.”

I think that’s the line. Followed by what your post again evokes, which I think is…

“I never thought about it before. Now I’m thinking about it all the time.”

I may have the exact wording of these lines wrong, but I love the implication that this encounter (if you will allow me to understate) with the Klan has actually made him consider his identity as a Jew. I realize this is a theme in a lot of fiction about these things, that prejudice can actually make the target into a stronger advocate for himself, or even make him realize and prize his identity, but I like the way it’s stated here.

Thank you for reminding me of that, Chris.

-xtien

“Those pictures were later sold as postcards.”

I love “I never thought about it before. Now I’m thinking about it all the time.”

Thanks, Marquardson, for giving Meryl just enough of an opening to sneak her way into the podcast.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t think you guys brought up Driver being under one of the hoods at the end during the cross burning. What was up with that? I assumed that meant he ended up joining the Klan in earnest. By the end of the movie I was kinda checked out and annoyed though, so maybe he was undercover. But I do remember it being presented as ominous. Because of that I didn’t really think the movie had a happy ending. I hated the joyful tone of the sting in the bar, but I figured it was going to be a setup to pull the rug out from under us, and I think the Under the Hood reveal was supposed to be just that. But ultimately I don’t think Spike is a very good filmmaker (at least at this point in his life) and the ending just didn’t work.

Yeah, I wouldn’t have remembered any lines, but that part was definitely a highlight for me.

I remember quite liking He Got Game. “Ray Allen’s a pretty good basketball player for an actor,” my dad is fond of quoting from a sports radio show from many years ago. I’m not sure if it falls into the category of Even If You’re Not A Basketball Fan… or not.

Has Tom never seen Chappelle’s Show? It’s great! I mean, if it holds up. It’s been a while. I was a little worried BlacKkKlansman would be too comedic, and fall into the trap that led to Chappelle disappearing for a while. Like where, say, white frat boys miss the point and just laugh at the n-word or whatever. This movie at least wasn’t about how funny it would be if there was a black Klansman, aside from one scene later in the movie. Really, as was said on the podcast, there’s no reason for Driver to not be the character full-time after the initial phone call. That part drove me mildly crazy throughout the movie.

Oh, also, I liked the portrayal of David Duke. I know very little about the real man, but I liked that this character was a “nice man.”

–Chris Webb

I really liked Sorry to Bother You. It’s… interesting. I think it’s a movie that might be up there when it comes to the end of the year.

I hate that I have to wait to listen (spoilers…).

So I was wondering about that. It wasn’t brought up on the podcast and I didn’t put it in my email. But I had thought that maybe it was at first, but then I figured it couldn’t be.

And now…I must leave…spoilers…

Edit: Sorry, I’ll just blanket spoiler the STBY talk.

I liked it enough to see it twice. The second time was mainly for my friend’s benefit, though, and he ended up not even liking it. He’s not a movie person at all, so maybe that will make this sound less ridiculous, but afterward he compared it to Howard the Duck. Like, boring in a similar way. I haven’t seen Howard so I don’t know, man. Also, I think he expected it to be more economically radical.

To me it was like a good version of Idiocracy, kinda.

Armie Hammer is so great. In general.

My gut says Tom and Dingus wouldn’t like it. But what’s my gut know!

Spoilering Sorry to Bother You. Trying to blur wasn’t working for me, so I’ll hide the details.

Summary

I didn’t know anything about the movie when I saw it so I wasn’t sure what I was in for. I thought that it was going to be sort of a standard fight the man movie and then it wasn’t. And I loved that twist.

I agree with you 100% with Armie Hammer. I thought he was excellent.

I haven’t seen Howard the Duck so I’m not sure just how apt a comparison that is.

I think… yeah, it would be a tougher sell I suspect. I think Kelly would enjoy it though. I would recommend this movie to Kelly.

No way! Or should I say, Get Out!

If that was the case, I completely missed it. Or was so unmoved that I forgot. I can’t imagine it would have been anything other than an implication that if the Colorado Springs PD wasn’t still on the case, Adam Driver certainly was! There was nothing in his character arc to suggest he was the least bit sympathetic to the KKK’s cause or open to the ideas of white supremacy.

Why would I have seen something that’s on the TV? Besides, it’s sketch comedy, right? Ugh. Unless we’re talking Amy Schumer. Link to something representative I might appreciate?

-Tom

Are you familiar with R. Kelly?

Is that a trick question? How out of touch am I if I say no?

-Tom

Well, the relevant sketch to this movie would be:

Part one

Part two

“Game…blouses.”

-xtien

P.S. This is part of a couple of sketches wherein Charlie Murphy, Eddie Murphy’s brother, would tell Hollywood stories.

The premise of this movie reminds me of a joke from Woody Allen’s stand-up days. He was going to marry a Christian woman and searched out a rabbi who would perform the wedding. “He was reformed. He was very reformed. He was a Nazi.”

I’ll stand with @marquac as a defender of this this movie. It’s messy, but I liked it.

The KKK infiltration is the most “fun” stuff in the movie, I really like Driver and Washington and their interplay, but it’s also the least thematically meaty stuff in the movie. Because, as you note, the KKK are caricatures, they’re fundamentally not interesting people. And that’s true in real life too. They’re clowns. Dangerous, but clowns.

Sure, you could invent a bunch of reasons to justify their virulent racism, but you don’t want to step on The New York Times’ territory.

The interesting stuff to me is how Ron navigates his identity as a black man and his role as a police officer, and the dialogue between Patrice and Ron. It’s whether you work within the system to change it, or stand outside of it in opposition. Which is why I think the “happy ending” where the racist cop gets kicked off the force is a good thing - it vindicates Ron. He can make a difference. And then the investigation into the KKK get shut down due to “budget cuts”. The system is still not caring about violent white supremacists, because that’s been the baseline since the foundation of the US, vindicating Patrice. It’s an unresolved question - and realistically you probably need Patrice to put pressure from the outside so Ron can have the space to change things from the inside.

The other interesting strand is the theme of film and the power of cinema. It starts with the romanticization of the lost cause in Gone With The Wind, continues with experience of a black man rooting for Tarzan to subjugate the horrible natives, and then goes to the impact of Birth of a Nation - and then it slams into the cold reality of the murder of Heather Heyer and a distressed stars and stripes.

And I think here Spike Lee and the movie totally agrees with @tomchick. This story - a story about a black cop infiltrating the KKK and busting a violent plot is ultimately an upbeat one. Haha. look at these fools. Catharthic happy ending. Racism solved. But that’s not where we’re at, and he knows that leaving the film on that note is just a placating lie.

I don’t think the movie finds a way to square these particular circles. They intersect at points - the discussion of Shaft vs Superfly with regards to black identity, the role of Birth of a Nation in creating the KKK. The investigation of the KKK as a catalyst for identity.

I like all of them in isolation though, and I enjoyed watching it trying to make it all work.

@marquac:

In your email you asked us about what we thought about Spike Lee adding the present day stuff at the end of the film. We went back and forth on this.

I’m interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this question, and also your thoughts on how we handled it and what we had to say about it. I always love when listeners ask us questions, and I have two friends in particular who do this. You and my friend Aaron. This almost always bears fruit. So I’d love to hear anything you have to say about this.


In other news, I think I forgot to bring this up, but Ryan Eggold, who played Walter, was really good in this series “The Blacklist” which starred James Spader (which I brought up during our Avengers: Age of Ultron podcast, I think). At any rate, the show is a little hit-or-miss and I abandoned it at some point, but I recall really liking Ryan Eggold in it. FWIW.

-xtien

“Well, good luck with your new redneck friend.”