Raven Shield anybody?

Games
1

Wow. Not alot of hubub about this game from here or even on Gone Gold (the gaming addict board with lists). Surprisingly, I’m liking it with the lone wolf mode! Rainbow Six in Unreal 2 technology! I like it but its more a game I like to just fool arnd in. Not too deep into it… but I do like the more ‘fps’ feel. Though the AI is still the average Tom Clancy terrorists aim better than your teammates AI. you know… I think LOS Vietnam had a more credible believable AI… even IGI 2 had this… why do all the Tom Clancy games feel so fake with enemy AI and aim? well… at least I can see my cool looking FN FAL gun now… god I cant believe it took the people who make the Clancy games so darn long to add weapon models in first person mode… ITS ABOUT TIME GUYS!

btw, whats a ‘Raven Shield’ I thjink of bird poop shiield for some reason… haha i made a funny!

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2

I played the single and multiplayer demos hard core.

I bought the full version Wednesday AM and have been pretty much playing online since then, but it’s tough because I just can’t get into it too much while I’m half-conscious that there’s an actual war raging on my TV right now. So I play a round or two, then watch CNN for an hour or so, then go back.

It is awesome. Just had the unfortunate luck of coming out at the start of Gulf War II.

3

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/tomclancysrainbowsix3rs/review-2.html

This repeated shifting between methodical, tense sneaking and lightning-fast gun battles keeps the game exciting almost all the time, though it also makes it unusually difficult. In fact, since Raven Shield doesn’t actually let you save your game in the middle of the mission, beginners may find this difficulty truly daunting–if you slip up and lose half your team to an ambush, you may have to start over from the beginning. Then again, tactical shooter veterans may very well relish that sort of challenge; a better compromise might have been to include lower difficulty settings that offered you the choice of being able to save within a mission.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

4

The rationalization on the “no-save” thing is because unlike Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six has always had smaller-scale levels. Ghost Recon needed in-game saves, because the maps were huge, especially that damn “wire the bridge for explosives level.”

An in-game save would have made Raven Shield too easy, though I can see the arguement for having something avialable for newbies, because the single-player is brutally hard.

But, that said, everyone is just playing multiplayer anyway.

5

Normally I am a big advocate of in-game saves, but I tolerate it for the Rainbow Six series since the missions are so short, and because player death doesn’t equate to mission failure.

That said, an in-game save would still have been nice. :(

  • Alan
6

As always, if you don’t want to save-- don’t save. Or at least provide saves proportional to the “difficulty level” ala SOF2.

7

In-game saving in a tactical/planning game like Rainbow Six (I’m assuming Raven Sheild still has the planning phase?) is kind of a silly expectation. Most of the time you fail because your plan was bad. It makes perfect sense to have to replay the levels because they’re tense quick-strike missions. Not SoF Rambo-style superhero fests. You want to save during missions in Flight Sims and on the racetrack too, I bet.

8

Most of the time you fail because your plan was bad

Yes, you never fail because of quirks in the enemy or friendly AI. Anything that increases frustration and decreases enjoyment, well, that must be good, right?

And I want to put this one to bed-- the racetrack save-game comparison is facetious. The very nature of a racetrack implies looping and multiple attempts. There’s no “failure” only slower lap times. You can screw up on a lap or two and make it up later. Whereas in Raven Shield, you get one shot to do the mission, and failure means death and starting over from scratch-- not reduced overall hostage rescue times.

The better comparison for a racing game is a season or championship mode. Let’s say you had to win a series of 9 races, and every time you failed to win a race, [i]you had to start over from the very first race in the series[i]. That’s what you are advocating here, whether you realize it or not.

9

Fair point. But the average Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear mission (I haven’t seen this new one) lasts about 10 minutes. It’s hardly a burden to have to repeat that if it serves the “sim” aspect and if the planning portion plays such a significant role in the game.

It’s not facetious unless you’re comparing a standard shooter to a racing sim. Also, in a hardcore sim like NASCAR Racing Season, messing up means the end of the race and if you’re playing 20 laps, that could be 30 minutes of hard racing down the drain… and all because that damn Waltrip bumped you on the final lap.

My point is that Rainbow is a simulation. I don’t have a problem with simulations being frustrating, it’s why I like them. But I do have a problem with simulations being artificially frustrating so they can challenge someone with his finger on the Quicksave button.

10

But counter-strike doesn’t have saves, heck, it doesn’t even give you multiple soldiers to play with. :D

11

Pretty much like the subject matter the game is based on. Set up a plan to take out some terroists, etc. and fuck up, you’re going to be dead. At least in the game you can start over, re-plan if you’d like, you name it.

It’s the same old story. If you don’t dig it, don’t play it. There are a million other games out there to try.

–Dave

12

Hey guys,

I’ve been playing Unreal Tournament 2003 and I think it’s broken because I can’t save during a botmatch. I invest, like, ten whole minutes playing a match, but then one of the other bots gets fifteen frags before me and I frickin’ lose! I hate that! I’d like to be able to save the game so I can reload when this happens, because it’s really frustrating.

Do you think Epic could add this in a patch?

 -Tom
13

I don’t see what the problem would be to make saving optional in the game at least. Either have the box checked or not.

14

I don’t have a problem with simulations being frustrating, it’s why I like them.

Frustration equals enjoyment. Gotcha.

And yet, strangely, I liked Operation Flashpoint a HELL of a lot more once I started using that save anywhere cheat. That way, I could replay the sections that were enjoyable if I wanted to, and I could skip past the annoying statistical deaths where I got randomly headshot by a BMP ten minutes in.

Also, in a hardcore sim like NASCAR Racing Season, messing up means the end of the race and if you’re playing 20 laps, that could be 30 minutes of hard racing down the drain… and all because that damn Waltrip bumped you on the final lap.

Well, if you’re masochistic enough to play racing games where a single race is an hour long, then I can’t help you.

However, in most racing games, a single race is maybe 10 minutes, and during that 10 minutes, you loop the same section of track over and over. So in essence you are “reloading” every time you cross the finish line. Why? Because you get to see the same track sections in the same order every lap. Similarly, I could load a saved game in Serious Sam and magically know that when I turn this corner, five baddies will spawn behind me.

Individual races-- barring 24 hour Le-Mans style catheterization-- are a non-issue because of the inherent repetition in (most forms of) auto racing. The correct analog is a season/championship mode in a racing sim, where savegames MUST exist.

I can’t save during a botmatch

counter-strike doesn’t have saves,

Multiplayer (and simulated multiplayer) is totally irrelevant to a discussion of savegames, but let me be the first to compliment you both on your cleverness.

15

Anyway, save issues notwithstanding, this game is very good. By far the best in the series by my estimation, and not just because you can finally see your gun model, either. There are some neat, tweaky little innovations in here – for example, the slick mousewheel “smooth” door opening trick.

16

the slick mousewheel “smooth” door opening trick

You can open those doors…just…wide…enough…to throw a grenade in and…slam! Boom!

Very slick.

 -Tom
17

Yeah, it feels really natural. Those crazy Canadian dev teams have certainly performed-- Splinter Cell, and now Raven Shield. Good stuff.

18

save issues notwithstanding

Good lord, this is annoying. Mission 2. Save one hostage. Get second hostage. Forget to look in every nook and cranny for every single freaking tango on the map and get shot. Restart. Repeat ad nauseam. I think I’ve played this mission 10 times already. And that’s not even counting the five times the hostage(s) got killed as soon as I entered the room! It would be so, SO much nicer if I could just save my game, instead of ritualistically memorizing where the bad guys are, systematically killing them all the exact same way, then getting to the part that I haven’t figured out yet-- and making a new mistake that requires me to restart from the beginning. Wheeeeee! I’m doing laps on the level just like a Nascar oval!

You can lose team members in the mission and still complete it, of course. But once they’re dead, they are gone from your roster forever. So you can continue on, I guess, assuming you don’t run out of operatives before the end of the game.

The first mission was similar, except I had to spend the last 5 minutes scouring the map for that last terrorist-- the objective was to kill 'em all, which is fine if you can FIND them.

Multiplayer is kind of a mixed bag right now. There are objective missions-- but without a cash system, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just bring the baddest assault rifle and 6 gazillion grenades to every engagement. It reminds me of America’s Army without all that pesky “balance” stuff.

Solid engine and implementation, though.

19

OK, I tried the “non-action” (multiple team) plan on the second mission (Cold Dagger?) and that was much, much easier. Evidently having 8+ operatives attack from multple directions is much more effective than having 3 attack from the same direction. Go fig!

So, if you’re having trouble with the mission using the “action” plan, you might try the other prebuilt plan instead. I’m not sure why but I expected the action plan to be easier and less sim-like. Paradoxically, the “complex” multi-team plan works better as an action game substitute, because you can lose 3-4 operatives, complete the mission, and not be affected. In the short term anyway.

I really appreciate the floating waypoints/instructions and SWAT3-like reticle command options. I have zero desire to plan a mission, but at last I have a way to get a grip and execute the pre-built plans while I’m in the mission! I like to think of it as “Counter-Terrorism For Dummies.”

I’m also pleased that enemy accuracy isn’t nearly as insane as it was in Ghost Recon. These guys do miss with automatic weapons on a regular basis. That annoying “find the last terrorist somewhere on this giant map before you can complete the mission” issue did rear its ugly head again, though. What were they thinking?

20

Bah, you know what beats this and makes my day?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

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