Just wrapped up after my annual long gaming weekend. House is passable, guests headed to the airport, and I thought I might post a few thoughts here.

The core experience for the weekend is Advanced Civilization, Bruce Harper’s classic published by Avalon Hill. We were able to put together 6 players for day, and played a full game. We had one rookie (an experienced gamer though, we are not cruel), the rest of us have about a dozen games under our belts. Italy, Thrace, Crete, Asia, Babylon, and Egypt were in play. I’m pleased to say I guided Asia to victory by about 130 points (finishing with a score of 4348), which is odd for our group, as the last four games have had margins of victory of less than 20 points (out of similar 4000+ point scores). Yes, they have been that tight, and if there are Civ grogs here, I’d love to hear what they see for victory margins. I rode a lot of luck - I drew relatively few calamities, so even when I received them in trade, I’d had trading stock to begin with. No civil wars for me.

If you haven’t played, Advanced Civ has a theme of growing a civilization from the late stone age through the iron age. Populations expand, cities are raised, trade goods arrive and are traded, technologies are purchased. The strongest mechanic supports the trading of trade goods - matched goods are geometrically more valuable, so players have a huge incentive to trade. Trade rules prevent trading single cards, and require incomplete information in the exchange. There are also calamities among the trade cards, which are themselves tradeable. Receive a Piracy in place of the gold or ivory you’re expecting, and you’ll be laid low by pirates. Unless, that is, you can pass it off to an unwitting trade partner. Trading is loud and fast, requires awareness of who’s buying and selling, demands careful attention to whether you can assemble the set you think you can, and a nice appreciation for when you should just man up and accept the Epidemic that you know the grinning Thracian is going to stick you with.

Advanced Civ goes some way to avoiding the “Eternal China” problem by willingly decimating the players’ creations. The calamities at the core of the game can be devastating, especially in combination. While teaching the rookie, I’d advised him not to become too attached to any city or population, he’d be likely to lose it. He nodded, and thought it’d be like losing a city or two to Montezuma in the Sid Meirs spin on the civ theme. He was disabused when one turn laid waste to six of his eight cities and dropped his population from 30 to 12. The mechanics let you rebuild easily, but you do capture a real sense of dark ages in the game, when everything goes wrong for everyone. There’s only light rubberbanding in the rules, but the players can easily pull back a frontrunner with a trade emabargo. Good luck and a few savvy trades had put me up by 300 points at one time - a single turn’s embargo by the other players set me back to second place. I do wonder what happens when single session players meet - could they rolling embargo the leaders to poison the entire game?

Civ is my favorite boardgame. If you have a chance (and the 12 or so hours it takes to get a full game in), I can’t recommend it enough. OK, that should be qualified - traders, strategy gamers, and civ builder types will love it. Wargamers might like it (but don’t play it as a wargame) - there are counters to push and territory to control. Role players (Arkham Horror folks) maybe not so much. If you like Battlestar, I think you’ll like this game - betrayal isn’t a one-off mechanic, sort of a rolling constant over the course of the whole thing.

Speaking of Battlestar, we played that as well. Five players, and I hold that it’s better to be lucky than good. I played Baltar, was human out of the gate, and toaster after the turn. I played so poorly that even in the table talk postagame, the other players wouldn’t believe I’d been human at the start. Normally I enjoy the game, but we were slow playing (two players had only played once before), and my own poor play (and subsequent dumb luck) made for a considerable anticlimax.

Axis&Allies was a part of the weekend as well. My brother’s a part of the group, we’d played against each other since the first Christmas that the first edition was released (83?84?). The others have been tangling for more than 25 years, so it’s freighted with a lot more drama than it might otherwise have. We’re playing the newer edition (not the Anniversary one tho), and as UK I came out on the winning Allied side. In classic ameritrash fashion luck played a significant role, and I’ve no problem with that. I just need to figure out how to get “OK, Soviets, 17 at 2 <thunder of dice hitting box lid>” as a ringtone.

A pile of Dominion, Caracassone, Modern Art, and Settler’s of Catan as filler, but one more new one - Space Alert. A timed, cooperative game, and a brutal one at that. The training wheels scenario that I thought we’d stroll through happily handed us our hat, our ass, and our collective dignity. If you like the cooperation inherent in Pandemic, but are frustrated either by the marionette play, or the grinding exploration for the optimal path, consider Space Alert. We got a few more scenarios in - winning one, getting hammered in the others (and we’re still bumper bowling at this point, we haven’t seen all the complexity nor done anything to up the challenge). I think I like it, I’m not sure if I love it. We get loud, and yell a lot at each other, which is really exciting, but I’m afraid it might be pitched to difficultly to really make getting to success a joy, especially if we don’t play but a couple of times a year. I am eager to spend more time with it, on balance.

In re your Advanced Civ: Have you played Through the Ages, or Sid Meier’s Civ yet? I’m curious how they compare to that old one, as I’ll almost certainly never play it.

You might be in for a good chat on Advanced Civ since Lorini here at qt3 is one of the designers.

Space Alert is probably my favorite coop game because it deals so aggressively with the temptation for the most dominant player to sockpuppet the others by creating information asymmetries within the game in layers. The expansion adds some great RPG elements to it that I think could make for a wonderful extended campaign with a regular group. I think it helps if you play it first in a day and deconstruct the first few moves after making them so that you can see how the flow of the game comes together and have a better grasp on just how limited the captain’s ability to micromanage is. There are no passengers on that ship, and the crew needs to be on their game at an individual level.

No, I haven’t. I’m hoping to get a game in at some point for much the same reason.

Woa!

Thanks Lorini, for one of my favorite games. It’s (a bit!) too long to hit the table often, but I still jump at the chance to play it when I can.

Lorini, my thanks as well. Dunno if you were part of the original Civilization, but I’ve got a few games of that under my belt, and to think that you and your colleagues improved on that gem is humbling. The game is a powerful link to a group of old friends, glue that pulls us across the nation to play. In that, it is the best of everything we hope games can be.

Jasper Phillips -I trust you’re using the spreadsheet based player aids? The twelve hours cited above is rather toward the long side for us. With a laptop per player, we’ve gotten 5 player games done in 8 hours and 6 player games in 10. We find there to be plenty of trade flying around at 5 players, which was one concern we’d had. We don’t set a timer on trade rounds, or any phase for that matter. In our group, I find we grind most in trade card purchases, and were we to set a timer anywhere, that’s where it would be.

As a board gamer for 30+ years that grew up on Avalon Hill games, I really think Lorini needs a honorary title to reflect her contributions to gaming!

Thanks guys. I had nothing to do with the first Civ though. The basic instructions from Bruce Harper were to deal with the original Civ problem of newbies losing the game before it started (or at least be put in a truly punishing position). It’s very difficult to win regular Civ as Egypt or Babylon as they have to take a bounce or be hamstrung by low pop for the rest of the game. Also if you buy the wrong combination of Civ cards in regular Civ, you can’t win. He also wanted to force the calamities to be more of the game because he either knew or believed that Frances Tresham had not meant for the calamities to be basically ignored in tournament Civ (people were known to sit down and agree not to play them, since the rules didn’t force you too). There are some who don’t like the changes which is fine too. The bottom line was to do what we could about the newbie situation. We couldn’t change the map though so a newbie can still take Asia after someone has taken Assyria (bad move unless you are sleeping with Assyria and can therefore prevent her from cutting you off). I think most players can figure out though that Asia is a bad idea.

I hope one day Hasbro will re-release Advanced Civ with Euro style rules and issue some badly needed clarifications on Barbarian Hordes.

Advanced Civilization is the True Civilization anyway, an improvement all around.

I can’t even fathom someone playing without calamities!

No, never used any sort of player aids. 5 player games I recall taking ~6 hours, and I’m not really sure how long the larger games took as those often ended up being called early.

Largest I ever played was 9 players (pity poor Asia!), which was great fun.

My favorite spot to play is Crete – great fun to be had extorting good or at least priority trades out of people. :-)

I’ve mostly played the original Civ (I’ve got original copies of both), and usually as Illyria. To speed things up an hourglass timer helps, usually at a minute or 90 seconds (if you have one of those). It’s my third favorite AH game, after Up Front and Titan. Easy to learn, hard to master. I’m nearly certain that’s never been said before…

People looking for a more intricate version of Settlers of Cataan might like Civilization. The core mechanic (trading of resources) is the same, with some screw your neighbor mechanics thrown in. Techs that you buy either ameliorate disasters or give you some other advantage, and it’s a tough game to be a runaway victor (though an easy game to be a runaway loser) since if you’re ahead enough people will stop trading with you.

I imagine if you have a copy of the original English version it would be worth a fair amount on the collector’s market. I paid $90 or so 6 or 8 years ago to replace the AH copy my mother junked when I went to college.

Cool! I think I’m on board with these ideas…

I hope one day Hasbro will re-release Advanced Civ with Euro style rules and issue some badly needed clarifications on Barbarian Hordes.

HERETIC!
BURN HER! (It is ‘her’, right?)

I kid, though. I actually think it’s pretty awesome to see an ‘old school’ developer with this attitude. As far as I’m concerned, most of those old AH games are pretty unplayable nowadays- game/mechanics and theory have come a long way in the last 15 years. I’d love modern remakes of Civ (ok, we just got this one, and I actually rather like it), Magic Realm, Source of the Nile, etc.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to change the rules, just make them more digestible :) Advanced Civ is not a wargame but the only way AH knew how to write rules was with the x.x.xx style. That style is not narrative, but purely referential and not useful at that. Using normal Euro headings, sub headings and paragraphs would make the game a lot easier to learn.

The rules could stand to be a bit less obtuse, but honestly speaking they’re not that bad – especially considering the AH-era in which they were written. Though perhaps that’s just my dim recollection relative to Star Fleet Battles. ;-)

A couple of the positions could probably use some pointers on how not to hose yourself as well. It’s more recoverable than many modern games (Power Grid and Wealth of Nations come to mind), but it’s enough longer that an early setback is extra painful.

We’ve yet to get into a shouting match over the Barbarian Hordes, but we had trouble with determining what “most in stock” meant during a civil war. How we managed that escapes me, but the stakes were high.

Mechanically, I don’t think Civ suffers much - a few of the calamities are a touch oddball, the “you must reduce cities built this turn first” clause, gets honored more often in the breach than in fact (and does the same hold for destruction, not reduction?). We kicked about what it would take to get us to buy roadbuilding - ships are very effective for distance movement, and carry fewer risks. But reorganized player cards with more info about calamities would be nice (funny how trade value plummets when you ask for the rulebook just after receiving your commodity cards).

I don’t know that modern rulebooks are necessarily much better at teaching games. I struggled with learning from Power Grid’s rulebook, and Dominion’s was nigh incomprehensible when I read it. Space Alert’s combo of playthrough guide clearly labeled “Read this first” and a rulebook for the minutia is nice. I suspect “modern” games with their typically shorter playtimes force a brutal concision on rules authors that takes a toll. While I couldn’t understand Dominion from the rulebook, the moment I started picking up cards and laying them down, it was crystal. If I’m trading, I’ll take the bright clarity of mechanics and exceptions moved to the playing pieces over the lawyerly style of the classic AH books.

That’s what I mean. Clear illustrations of examples of play in color, a narrative style, an FAQ at the end, that kind of thing. We can only hope :)

I don’t like the trend with modern games to have the rules be broken into “simple,” “standard,” “advanced,” etc. games.

For example, Through the Ages and Agricola both do this. To me, it just makes a hash of having the rules be comprehensive and easy to use, as when you play the “full” game, you usually have to go to multiple spots in the rulebook, as the full game will refer to what is different from the standard game. Nowhere is there a comprehensive set of rules for the entire main game (at least without cross referencing).

To me, it is little better than the old Avalon Hill programmed instructions, which are also vilified (rightly).

Agricola’s family game is a good complete game in its own right though. I agree that what they did with TTA was silly. The only way that would have been ok is if they had also provided a complete rulebook along with the breakdown into simple, etc.

I completely agree, especially because the “simple” games are often hideously unbalanced and broken, so give you a poor impression of the game. I thought Through the Ages was tedious and over-fiddly based on the Simple game; I thought Last Night on Earth was impossible to win as humans based on the Basic game. Both impressions were wrong, but I didn’t play them both until much later based on that negative first experience.

Probably old news to everyone here, but I got an email from Days of Wonder saying the PC version of Memoir '44 is available. Unfortunately it’s pay-to-play. Bleh.