I don’t get this part. It’s a game. I don’t fucking hate my opponent, I just want to beat him.
By the way, I am interested in Claustrophobia, but have not purchased out out of fear that it is too light. I don’t mind 2-3 hour games, and I like games where there is a lot of character detail and depth (as long as it is purely pointless chrome).
I’ve been wondering lately about Earth Reborn.
Claustrophobia is more akin to a fantasy version of Space Hulk than to an alternative for Descent. Descent is far more complicated, has far more options, and takes far longer to set up and break down. Descent also works better with more than two people. For these reasons and more, I got rid of my Descent collection.
Relative to Descent, Claustrophobia is dramatically streamlined but retains about 90% of the tension and plays much, much faster. There are always meaningful decisions to make no matter what side you’re on, and so far the scenarios are balanced really well (I haven’t tried all of them). If you need something that plays more than two then forget it, but I highly recommend either this if you want a fantasy game or Space Hulk if you want a sci-fi game (or both, because they offer similar levels of tension and decision-making with dramatically different rules).
As mentioned, there are plenty of supplements that make it easier to run scenarios/campaigns mostly on autopilot, letting players focus on a tactical combat game that is far more nuanced than Descent’s.
Plus, there’s far more available than just D&D. Personally I’d recommend Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, which comes with lots of cards and bits, has some nice scenarios/campaigns available, and plays more like an RPG/board game hybrid than a full-on RPG.
But you’re right in that determining which one is superior depends on what you want to get out of the game. If you want something completely structured, with clear winners and losers as dictated by a printed ruleset, then you want Descent. If you want something that fosters role-playing, creativity, storytelling, character development, and campaign continuity, then you want a real RPG. The review that was posted focuses mainly on the RPG aspects of Descent, which, IMHO, are shallow relative to something like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay or pretty much any other RPG.
Well, sure. Because Descent is not an RPG, nor is it trying to be. It’s a dungeon crawling hack-n-slash boardgame with more depth (and setup time, and play length) than most such games, that has a couple of expansions which add a metagame layer to it that allows you to play a persistent setup over several months. I think there are some very real issues with Descent, but they lie elsewhere.
The point is that the article everyone is discussing focuses on the RPG elements of Descent. All I’m saying is if those elements appeal to you they have little to with Descent’s strengths and you’d be better served playing an RPG to experience them.
I would love to comment more on Fresco but I simply haven’t gotten to play it since those two times. I can vouch for the Portraits being low overhead, simple, and adding a nice tweak to an otherwise bland option (the draw money one). I guess for me what makes it stand out is how tense each turn gets as you balance the opportunity cost of timing against what you really, absolutely need to get done each turn…it feels very unlike games that appear similar superficially but are much less interactive from decision to decision, and yet it still has that independent feel to what you are doing each action.
I would say Earth Reborn is a great purchase if you get Claustrophobia or Space Hulk and decide you like it but want more layers to the tactics and decisions with many branching paths rather than a handful at each step. It’s a fantastically well designed game (although I prefer the theme and overall play time: fun ratio of the other two) with great parts. Just about the only thing I can say against it directly is that the bits are double sided, oddly shaped and difficult to pre-sort for convenient storage and setup, which is kind of the price of the level of modularity.
The Asmodee websitehas ongoing free support and scenarios for Claustrophobia including one with a campaign and leveling/xp, as well as an upcoming expansion. The rules (as with Space Hulk) are simple but do a great deal once you get the board on the table. SH remains my favorite game, but it’s pricey and kind of a pain to get ahold of sometimes. I love that with both I can explain them to new people quickly and get a competitive game out of it and yet still play them with veterans and discover new things.
I will point out, though, that I only mentioned the 1v1 genre because I think that’s where you find the biggest bang for your buck in terms of meaningful tactical decisions vs playtime/cost/setup. It is not an experience directly like Descent simply because that game is relatively tactically shallow despite lots of stuff happening all of the time, and Descent is really built on the whole light hybrid of hack-n-slash and prepackaged roleplaying kind of experience rather than being much of a “game” game, if that makes sense.
So on a different note, I played Flying Colors this weekend. This is a GMT wargame that simulates Napoleonic-era fleet actions. As always with war games, I played with my son, so it can’t speak to it from a hardcore competitive perspective. But from a casual wargamer’s perspective, it’s a pretty great game. The rules are EXTREMELY light, from a GMT perspective, with just enough chrome to make it seem passable realistic; it plays quickly; and playing the game made me understood why fleets use the tactics they did, and the importance of things like “having the weather gauge” (aka being upwind of your opponent).
A war game that feels plausibly realistic, gives you insight into the period, and yet is quick to learn and play seems like almost the ideal there, so yay for them.
In one-on-one, or all-on-all games that’s true. But in my experience, the social dynamic of 4-on-1 things is a lot less genial. The fact that everyone is conspiring against one person, and he has nobody to work with, but is trying to beat everyone else… well, it just gets kinda weird. Obviously not everyone finds that to be the case.
Yeah, I’ve had Space Hulk for years now (I have the original, with the Deathwing and Genestealer expansions). Thanks for the thoughts - looks like I might have to try Earth Reborn (I will take a closer look at Claustrophobia too, based on your comments along with mkozlows).
I would agree that Descent isn’t the most tactically complex game, but I’m not sure why you think it is quite so shallow (though I guess you did say “relatively”). Admittedly the more open nature of the rooms, etc. leads to slightly fewer choke points, etc. But I don’t find it to be that big a difference from Space Hulk. Of course, that’s with playing Road to Legend - I never liked just the base game of Descent, which was boring prepackaged pain to me.
Oh yeah, mkozlows, I don’t play Descent with four, only two (one player as the Overlord, one as the heroes). So I don’t run into that issue.
Descent with two would probably be a lot more fun, yeah.
Descent reminds me of Hero Quest, which tragically I haven’t played for a long, long time. I loved coming up with new dungeons for that game using photocopies of the blank map page. Siiigh, nostalgia. :)
Amazon is currently selling Dungeons & Dragons: Conquest of Nerath Board Game for $50.39 plus free shipping. It’s receiving very good reviews on BGG, as well as an enthusiastic thumbs up from Tom Vasel. Only 14 left in stock as of this posting!
EDIT: Make that 13!
What the shitting hell? I paid them $80 and it was delivered yesterday. I’m going to have to murder Amazon directly in their stupid faces. Such jerks.
The game itself is pretty damn impressive. I only had enough time yesterday to punch out all the cardboard bits, but the impression that I get thus far is sort of like asymmetrical Risk, but in a good way, if that makes any sense.
The comparison I’m hearing a lot is to Axis & Allies (for which I have no personal frame of reference), focused primarily on the different types of units and how that affects strategic planning. I’m curious about to what degree the racial starting abilities and decks create significant asymmetries, but more than that I’m encouraged by how the game seems to discourage turtling. I say “seems” because there’s always some kind of build and surge approach available, but it’s not the principle of the thing that matters to me so much as how it tends to affect pacing in the midgame.
So, yeah, sold at that price. Thanks for the heads up Mysterio.
Boughted! and 9 left…
Between this and Battleship Galaxies its going to be a fun July.
wahoo
2877
I bought one as well so I’m looking forward to trying it. Thx Mysterio
They got a new shipment as the stock is up to 15 after many purchases here.
And Battle Beyond Space is up soon (well, maybe August isn’t too optimistic) as well.
Tony_M
2879
I’ve always felt a similar sentiment. If you like DnD 4th Edition, then you may as well just play Descent instead. Descent is a better designed board game than DnD 4th Ed.
On the other hand, if you want to play a real rpg, then you need to try one that doesn’t use a board.
Looks like something my kids would like to “play”, and maybe something they’d be willing to actually play with me once they’re a little older. Ordered!
