6201

Looking for some “games similar to” and/or “better than” advice: Took my son (13) to a small gaming convention this weekend, and found a gamestyle that it turns out is right up our alley - deckbuilding. I’ve always enjoyed games like MTG (and now Hearthstone, etc.) minus the whole ‘collectible’ bit, but I’m really really poor at the whole meta-game aspect (ie., I’d rather play a pre-made deck). I own LoTR:LCG as well, and it is great, but again - quite a bit of meta-game. I assumed everything in the ‘deckbuilding’ genre meant games like that. Appears I’m wrong.

We played both Ascension and Quarriors (with one expansion + ‘advanced’ rules). Quite similar in playstyle (minus the obvious of one being cards, one dice). But there were a number of things I absolutely loved about both especially in thought of getting the family to play: not painful/tedious to setup/teardown, not overly long (over an hour/game limits the audience…), no meta-game, not so deep that it becomes ‘un-fun’ for the non-gamer types, and in the case of Quarriors has just enough randomness that a better strategy player won’t always dominate. It was everything I think I like about MTG-like games, without everything I don’t seem to like about MTG-like games :) A shame I didn’t discover this before.

That said, before I go and drop something down on either of these two games, what else should I look at in the same mold? It is a fine-line, because I don’t want something “deeply strategic” but I don’t want something that is so random that it is nothing more than insert random luck-based dice game here/Munchkin (which is a good family game, but we’re ready for the next step). I think Quarriors meets this. Ascension appeared to have maybe more long-term depth, but as a noob to both (and a fairly new boardgamer myself) I can’t really judge.

6202

The iOS version of Ascension is really, really popular here. It’s probably one of the best deck-building games out there. Dominion started it, but it’s nowhere near as good.

6203

Loved the last gaming podcast Tom, even though it set me back a bunch of money. The whole family is enjoying Pathfinder, my kids are 12 and 14 and they are heavily invested in their characters already - we will have to see how permadeath our household turns out to be when we come to that bridge. I am also going to have to order Sentinels when it gets reprinted in December as my local store is out of stock and it sounds wonderful as well. Who could have guessed as I was growing up a 13 year old playing Judge Dredd roleplaying games with my friends that I’d be doing this sort of stuff with my family so many years later. Super!

6204

Single iPhone in the house, no iPads. :( And there is something in the brain that giggles at huge stacks of well-sleeved cards or 130+ dice in a box…

6205

That wasn’t so much a suggestion to play the iOS version, which works fine on a small screen, so much as pointing out that the game has legs here. According to my online profile I have played 848 games of Ascension. That I think is a clear endorsement of buying the physical version.

6206

It’s a genre that’s exploded lately, so you’ll have no trouble finding games to compare them against if you want to. Dominion is the game that really kicked off the genre, and it did so for a reason. It’s solid, simple, strategic and has just enough luck. Based on your previous games, though, I imagine the theme would be a knock. It’s about building medieval kingdoms, your deck representing an economic engine you build to get more land. Worked well with gamers and non-gamers for me. It also has a longer setup time then Ascension and Quarriors (maybe 5-10 minutes?) but the play time is about 30 minutes.

Puzzle Strike is in my opinion the most interesting deck building game. Each player picks a character that gives you your starting deck. Different characters have pretty radically different playstyles and strategies. There’s also a random set of cards to buy from every game. The downsides are this game is basically a more complicated version of Dominion so it’s harder to teach. It’s also much more combative then most deck builders. You are literally trying to kill your opponent. Finally, it’s really a two player game (though Ascension arguably is too), so if you’re looking for something for 3-4 players, I don’t recommend it.

There’s about 8 million other games (seriously: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2664/deck-pool-building), but those are the two I’d most recommend. I’d personally avoid the DC Deckbuilder and Thunderstone, neither of which are very interesting. I’ve heard the Marvel deck-builder is good, though I haven’t played it, and there’s a space deck-builder called Core Worlds that gets a lot of love, but I also haven’t played it. If you do get interested in something more complicated later, you might want to check out Eminent Domain which combines deck-building with Puerto Rico style role-selection, and A Few Acres of Snow, which is a wargame / deckbuilder. Hope that helps.

6207

Core Worlds is the only deck builder I play anymore and I’d definitely look into it before buying Ascension. I love how the theme is so well integrated. It’s a game where you build your own space empire by carving out a chunk of a collapsing empire. You recruit troops, spaceships and robots (with some pretty cool art) and as you conquer planets they get added to your play area so you really get a feeling of building something up. I also like that the cards on display in the middle of the table get better as the game progresses because you are moving from the outskirts to the highly developed Core Worlds.

Ascension does let you take turns where you play 40 cards in a row by chaining together cool stuff and works really well as an app; Core Worlds has empire building and a much better narrative. And robots. I like both but I prefer Core Worlds on the table.

6208

Thanks all. I knew about the 8million listed at BGG, but that was just information overload :) Dominion doesn’t sound too bad - the theme actually might make it more favorable for the wife/daughter (fantasy/medieval which is a plus, but without the strangeness? of Quarriors/Ascension). I was merely worried that since it was the first it might be old-hat at this point, and newer games trumped it.

I didn’t realize Ascension favored 2 players over 3-4 (I played it 4 player). Since my son and I would likely play <whatever> together more often, that could be a plus and he doesn’t mind the theme. I’m not a personal superhero fan, so will look past DC/Legendary for now, and appreciate the warning about Thunderstone. Core Worlds sounds interesting, but fantasy would trump space for the rest of the family.

But now I’ve got Dominion in the list, rather than tossing out one of Quarriors or Ascension. Aiiieeee :)

6209

omg Core Worlds is so good with more people. Stupid fantasy themes :p

6210

I have Space Hulk: Death Angel on its way to me, along with each of the expansions. I have heard so many good things about it, so I finally caved and bought it. Looking forward to playing it, as it sounds like it plays very good solo, or even more ppl…

6211

I don’t like Dominion much now. It was interesting when I first saw it, but Ascension has completely replaced it for me.

Most people complain about the poor theming, but for me it’s the mechanics. In Dominion, there are Coin (income) cards, Action cards, and Land (VP) cards. The issue is that normally you can only play 1 action card per turn. Which means that if you draw 2 Action cards, one of them is dead weight unless one of them gives you additional Actions. Which means that you normally want to be careful about accumulating only a few Action cards, and Actions are the interesting part of your deck. Between this and VP cards doing nothing, I find this leads to boring decks. I greatly prefer Ascension where you can always play all the cards you draw.

This is so much of an issue that there’s a brain-dead strategy that will often beat novice players. Just buy coins unless you draw enough coins to buy a 5 VP land. Repeat until you exhaust the Land cards, never buying a single Action card. This works, but it’s deadly dull. Novice players will tend to buy the interesting looking actions but find that a hand full of coins beats a hand full of Actions since you often can only play 1. Unless you take a lot of +Action cards, which are often weak unless they also draw a card.

6212

I went the opposite direction on that break. I like Ascension, but don’t love it. My biggest personal complaint with Ascension was that the deck building felt less interesting because it didn’t have the competing currency of +Action. What I love about it is it’s a currency that plays out in a completely different way, in comparison to money / combat Ascension style break. It does ultimately change the focus of the game. Dominion has less interesting decisions in a turn and more interesting deck building, whereas Ascension is the opposite. It helps Dominion play fast and focus on different deck-building strategies per play. Also since Dominion is so modular, with some expansions you can tailor that focus a bit more towards in-turn decisions later if that’s what you wanted.

I think Puzzle Strike does a better job with +Actions because your hand size increases over the course of the game (which makes getting the right balance of +Action more difficult). The cards also often have multiple uses. For instance, standard attack cards can also be used for defense, but depending on your character and strategy, it can be better to not lose it on a defense and attack on your turn. That way, if there’s only one action card you’ll be able to use this turn, it’s often still an interesting / difficult decision of how to use it well.

6213

This is alot of fun, but really brutal. Given the one hit, one kill mechanic and the ramp up of the genestealers as you get closer to the goal…most of those marines don’t make it. I think I’m at a 25% win ratio which is perfect for a solo game.

6214

I have yet to see a deck builder that is as great as Dominion. So many others are okay games, but they seem to miss the great potential of deck building synergy. And the card variety in Dominon is extraordinary, considering that everything works together and every set of ten cards evokes a different strategy.

That said, not every family will like it. Quarriors is lighter and weirder. After playing it a bunch I found the randomness to much, but that could be a benefit if some players are way better than others. My second favorite deck builder is Eminent Domain. If sci-fi is a draw, then it could be a good choice, but some of its mechanics are not quite intuitive.

Ascension is not a bad middle ground on randomness vs strategy, really. I totally don’t think it’s as good as Dominion, but I can see why it has earned its fans.

I have Core Worlds but haven’t gotten it to the table yet. Looks longer and more hard core. Also seems to be missing Dominion’s elegant synergy building.

Legendary (Marvel) is a good game. Takes a lot if setup, in my experience. My biggest problem with it is that you play as Shield agents or squads, getting the help of the heroes. Which is far less interesting than playing an actual hero.

In fact, it’s not deck building, but I would urge you to look at Sentinels of the Multiverse. So colorful, so much variation. Can’t recommend it enough.

6215

Core Worlds is far more interesting as a deck builder than Dominion. The decisions are much tighter and resources extremely scarce. Every little choice has huge consequence, not that decisions don’t matter in dominion; it’s just that in Core Worlds they are much more significant. There are not piles of the same card so competition is very intense, they all matter and you will never have all the actions or resources to do everything you want. The game is not short but there is a crunch as you get closer and closer to the ‘Core Worlds’ and competition only gets more intense.

Tom M

6216

My problem with Core Worlds (having only read the rules and cards) is that it doesn’t have the interplay between cards of Dominion, that’s all. Hardly any deck builders do. But I will reserve any more opinionating until I get it to the table. Definitely happy to hear people say its great!

6217

There is a difference of opinion here but also be aware that there are definately cards in Core Worlds that work extremely well together. There just isn’t stacks of them which makes assembling your deck much more harried. Obviously I have a personal preference for Core Worlds. I believe the game to be more interesting in it’s choices. I won’t go on to say that Dominion is without merit and the fact that people like it doesn’t bother me.

We are on the same team for Sentinels and I’m glad Tom came over on that one. The podcast was great and the game is fantastic. I would recomend Sentinels far more than Ascension or Quarriors, admittedly not a huge fan of either. Entirely different game though.

Tom M

6218

If you’re into ‘Deckbuilding’ games, SMASH-UP!!! I managed to get a hold of the Cthulu Expansion from Gen-con and the game itself is hugely fun. Wyrd has a game called ‘Evil Baby Orphanage’ which is also a riot.

As for Board Games with an actual Board. Lords of Waterdeep, and Fresca are two that I’ve played recently and have enjoyed.

6219

I’ve been reading up on Dominion, and it has a few advantages over Quarriors at this point: less random, and cheaper :) Also, I found that goko.com has the whole game playable online so I can give it a run-through and see if the family would even go near it, so I’m pleased. I’ll take a gander at Sentinels, but right now I’m intrigued by the whole deck-building theme. Core Worlds sounds great, but maybe a bit harder/longer than I’m looking for.

Right now it is between Dominion and Ascension: Storm of Souls. I’m sort of leaning to Ascension simply because it sounds like Dominion requires having a grand plan up-front, vs. Ascension being more on-the-fly (strategic vs. tactical, I suppose?). It seems like the family (new/non-gamers) might have an easier time grasping the on-the-fly model. But Dominion plays better with 4, while Ascension shines with 2. Grr.

6220

If you’re just going to play Ascension with two people, why not get the Apprentice version for just $9.99? Granted, it’s not Storm of Souls (which is indeed better), but then you could maybe afford to get Dominion too…

http://ascensiongame.com/shop/ascensionaprenticeedition/