1901

7 Wonders is a filler game that doesn’t last long. It’s a nice game, but it’s not in Agricola’s class. Agricola is a classic Euro that can be really really good, particularly if all the players have somewhat equal levels of experience with the game.

1902

Ramses Pyramid:
http://shop.lego.com/ByCategory/Product.aspx?p=3843&cn=594&d=292

Design by Reiner Knizia



1903

Yep, I’d cast a vote for Agricola as well, or as an alternative (another great game with broadly the same overall mechanics) Le Havre.

1904

What is it about Agricola that makes it so appealing and well-respected?

1905

For me, it is because it has a good blend of some of the best parts of “Euro” games (foreplanning and resource maximization for example) as well as some of the best parts of “Ameritrash” games (nice theme and chrome for example).

It does all that with enough skill to make the game not simply a random dice fest, but also with a fair bit of randomness generated by the occupation and tool (I forget the exact name of them, but others will know what I mean) cards.

To me it’s just a really good blend. I can have some strategies in mind, but am also always excited by seeing my randomly dealt cards and having to quickly figure out how to fit them in to the overall strategy (or ditch the overall strategy) and how to get the cards in play to maximum benefit (which often includes deciding not to put a card in play because its synergies with other cards are not sufficient to justify the cost, for example).

In summary, I think it is a good, intelligent game, but not as dry and monotonous as some true “same game every time maximize or die” Euro games.

1906

For those of you who like Arkham Horror, but just don’t have the time for it, you might want to look at Witch of Salem. I usually describe it as “it is to Arkham Horror what Settlers of Catan is to Civilization”, which sums it up nicely.

Defined in broad, thematic terms, WoS and AH are the same game- fully co-op games where players are investigators, moving to various locations in Arkham, gathering items, fighting monsters and sealing gates, all in an attempt to stop one of six Great Old Ones from manifesting and taking over the world. Play-wise, they are, of course, completely different- WoS is a very, very streamlined Euro co-op sort of thing, and AH is Fantasy Flight-Style Ameritrash at it’s most bloated (lots of dice, a million cards, etc.).

For sure, WoS isn’t the best game in the world- not even the best co-op (that’d be Space Alert), but it is fun, and very, very challenging- my group won for the first time the other night after about a dozen plays, and that was only after changing a particular communication rule. It plays in less than an hour.

1907

Is this an endorsement? Got it for my son for Xmas - he wanted one of the Lego games, and this looked to be one of the better ones. Got Munchkin as well. I know that it isn’t the “in” thing anymore, but games like MTG are still a bit much much and I despise the whole random collectable part.

1908

Minor improvements. :) And well stated! I also love Agricola but I know there are some people who don’t necessarily share that on this board.

1909

Agricola is our favorite boardgame by far. What’s particularly amazing about it for us is that it works perfectly with two players, and my wife and myself plays mainly this, but is even better with three or four. I tend to really like boardgames in which each player has a little mat and tries to build something on it (Princes of Florence, Vegas Showdown, Galaxy Trucker, Dungeon Lords etc.) I think Agricola is the best in class for this sort of thing. Your farm looks and behaves like a farm, the theme matches the mechanics, and the staggering variety of cards makes for seemingly endless replayability.

1910

I HATED Witch of Salem, and I love Arkham Horror. Just saying.

1911

These are all reasons I love Agricola. The painful thing most people find with Eurogames is how tacked on themes are to what amounts to being ridiculously abstract game mechanics. Agricola’s ability to transcend that by mapping the game mechanics somewhat sensibly to actual farm activities makes it immediately accessible without removing the strategy and skill that draw people to play Eurogames in the first place.

A few more points in its favor:

-It doesn’t feel cutthroat but is still quite competitive. Even if you suspect you aren’t winning you can still have fun just trying to build the best farm you can pull off

-The random dealing of cards provides for a different experience each time you play, but it’s not overwhelming. It also lets you add a personal touch to your farm and differentiate it from everybody else.

-Fixed end point. The game is always the same length. It never feels like its dragging on past its welcome.

1912

If anything, it more commonly feels like you never quite have the time to do everything you need to get done, since you have a limited (if expandable) number of actions each round and the Harvest phases give you inescapable deadlines.

1913

Very true. It does feel like an accomplishment though if you can manage to get ahead of the curve even a bit. You definitely never feel like there’s nothing to do on your turn - every action is precious.

1914

It does a great job of providing focus to what you want to do. Even if you are playing for the first time, you know you have to feed your people and there are options that are right there to let you do that.

1915
  • It’s a well thought out and interesting resource management game.
  • The theme is remarkably well integrated.
  • It’s accessible, yet challenging.
  • It’s interactive and competitive, without being combative.
  • It’s deep and tricky, and yet not overly long.
  • There are many effective strategies.
  • The random hands of Occupations and Improvements mean that the game has much more replay value than the typical Euro games – even the good ones (e.g. Power Grid, Puerto Rico, etc.) can quickly become played out.

It’s not my favorite game, but I would readily admit it’s the all around “best” game I own, and the one I’ve played the most too. I’m not as hot to play it as I once was after playing it so much, yet I still look forward to getting some games in over the next week.

1916

And I can see that. I mean, most of the reason people love AH is the super ameritrashiness of it. With a million cards of various stripes, a million different things can happen! Tons of dice! Dozens of different characters! Strip all that away, some would say, and what are you left with?

If you’re in the mood for playing Advanced Civilization, Settlers just ain’t gonna cut it. If you think that Twilight Imperium 3 is the best game of all time, Galactic Emperor is going to seem bland and flavorless. If what you’re after is an 18XX train game, Ticket to Ride is not going to push your buttons. Same thing for Arkham Horror and Witch of Salem. For someone who LOVES AH, WoS just isn’t it. But I showed WoS to a couple of guys last Saturday night that admitted to ‘liking’ AH (had only played it a few times), and we had a blast with it- played it twice in a row. So I figured I’d mention it here.

1917

Well, I do admit to a certain general distaste for the traditional Eurogame model of theme a super-thin veneer over mostly unrelated mechanics, but even on a purely mechanical level I really disliked Witch of Salem. If I’d played it more than the once, a long time ago, I’d be more specific, but alas, my memory isn’t that good.

1918

This thread has gotten too long to sort through so I am going to apologize if this has been hashed through previously. In my defense, I have read bits and pieces.

My wife has suggested that we bring a board game to the family Christmas party. She suggested Monopoly or Risk. I cringed internally and suggested that there may be other games that won’t take as long.

So what I am looking for is a game (or games) that are accessible to non-gamers, with rules that can be easily communicated, with a reasonable (1 hour or so) playing time. As an added bonus, it would be good if the game were playable for 2 players for when my wife and I are home alone.

From the bits and pieces I’ve gathered up reading this thread, three games seem to stand out.

Carcassone seems to fit the bill well, but there are also appears to be a myriad of expansions and standalone sequels. Are any of the standalones better, or is there any highly recommended expansions?

Ticket to Ride also seems to fit the bill. Is there a preferred version as there seems to be some choice here.

Settlers of Catan doesn’t quite fit the bill. It isn’t playable as a 2 person game, but I understand people have come up with rules variations to accommodate 2 people, and that some of the expansions, or standalone sequels accommodate 2 person play. Is it or any of its expansions enjoyable as a 2 person game or is that just a bullet point on a feature list to try to get more sales?

1919

The original Ticket to Ride is the most straightforward, so it is the easiest to introduce to non-gamers. It plays from 2-5, so it accommodates both couples (although some other versions are better for 2), and larger groups.

As for Carcassone, I’d suggest sticking with the basic version for non-gamers, as expansions add more rules to the mix.

Dominion is also a good option. It is a card game where you build your own deck as you go along. It plays from 2-4, but it is quite good as a two player game. My wife and I have played all three of these games, but spend the most time with vanilla Carcassone and Dominion.

1920

^upvote (just to add another voice in support)