Replaying Baldur's Gate

Possibly, but I was going by Adam’s original post which was about BG2, and it looks like @Belisarius replied to him.

Pfft, like I can be bothered to read that far back :)

Checking my notes (everyone keeps notes, right?) the last time I played evil was in May 2016.

05/16 - Severus, level 12 Blackguard, romancing Viconia. Went evil and many quests became broken. Evil just doesn’t pay in BG2.

I remember there were broken quests, but I don’t remember the specifics. That would certainly persuade me to never play evil ever again.

Edit - also, the Viconia romance turns to shit even when you do it “right.” The devs are trying to tell you something.

There is a cool mod that I am waiting for that adds more cleric kits.

Actually, there are a couple of them, but Divine Remix hasn’t been updated in a long time, and the other strays a little too far from P&P.

There were a number of broken quests previous to BG1/2:EE before 2.5. They have mostly cleaned those up.

However, if you use the mod aTweaks it has a component that makes all the evil choices have comparable rewards to the good choices (previously almost all Evil choices you received less XP/worse loot). It’s fully compatible with the current versions of the EE games.

Just finished a complete replay of BG1: EE, Dragonspear (first time), and BG2: EE (including Throne of Bhaal)

BG1
-Evil Party. Ditched Imoen as soon as I could. I will become Bhaal. Chaotic Neutral Human Wild Mage. (spoilers: turns Chaotic Evil by the end of BG2)
-Ran with the new Orc Blackguard NPC they added.
-Murdered everything within reason AKA I defiantly killed everyone inside the Iron Throne HQ. TWICE (because you can revisit it later)
-I also played the Black Pits so I was really glad when the Drow Sorcerer showman guy showed up out of the blue in. He is much more powerful than the rest of your party it is silly.
-The only major content skip was the lower parts of Durlag’s tower. I sort of wanted to move on to the BG2…errr Dragonspear. Maybe a mistake.
-BG1 is…mostly a series of wilderness maps with set encounters and side-quests, and dungeons. The dungeons are the weakest element. I sort of prefer the low level adventuring though.
-BG1 has the most cursed items by far. So many cursed items!

Dragonspear
-First time. I sort of like the structure of this game, as you travel with an army from one “act” to the next.
-The returning NPCs are also those that carry over to BG2, and a few more from only BG1.
-BG1 fights on steroids, AKA Throne of Bhaal but still mostly drawing from the BG1 bestiary.
-There is like at least 1 mindflayer and 1 dragon you can fight though.
-I kinda liked the Bhaal Temple dungeon. Again being evil.
-My choices always centered around killing the most amount of people possible, so I tried to play both sides for maximum murder. Ultimately having the besieged storm out and try to break the siege leads to the most death on both sides so yeah.
-Last fight was kinda too tough. Ultimately angel girl died and her father lived, so he could stay behind and seal the portal (thus trapping himself in Hell).

BG2
-I realized replaying this, like 60% of the game is completing all the stronghold quests in chapter 2, and the side quests that orbit them.
-I got the wizard stronghold, planar sphere…which means training apprentices. They all died except for one guy, but hey I got a nice ring.
-Some stronghold quests are easier than others. Totally unbalanced. The Cleric and Paladin ones being on the extreme side. (because of Beholders and a Dragon)
-Killing the thieves guild felt good, but then killing the vampires felt better (and easier because later and their base is smaller)
-Underdark is the only other major area/second hub of the game. Long quest chain. Pulled the double-double cross.
-Of course I killed Drizzt and his gang, but some asshole steals all his loot from you.
-The last section of the game isn’t that great.

Throne of Bhaal
-Ok I totally forgot how this one goes but I did remember bits like you are fighting armies.
-Ultimately it is just a big combat slog with only a few side quests here or there.
-The amount of epic loot they throw at you is ridiculous, but even more so if you do Watcher’s Keep
-Watcher’s Keep was just ok. Kinda too puzzly with locked doors everywhere or a maze.
-Thankfully ToB was short because it wasn’t that interesting. Worst of the bunch. The final fight is kind of annoying.
-Combat got too finicky and hard to read with a bajillion powers.

Conclusion
I think I enjoyed BG1 and Dragonspear the most, when things are simpler and magic is much more limited but still impactful. Two mages in BG1 makes a difference. (because two fireballs can really clear a room) BG2 is also good up to a point, but it sort of falls off near the end and just gets too crazy in ToB. It is hard to know what the heck is going on in a lot of fights because there is just too much stuff happening all at once in a very short amount of time…so you just pause, all fighters do greater whirlwind, and all mages cast dragon breath and/or meteor and hopefully everything dies.

P.S. Also Wild Mage is kind of annoying due a magic surge effect that steals most of your gold, but dropping cows on enemies causing them to explode into gibbets never got old (but was only really effective in BG1) In the late game being able to roll for the chance to access any spell in your spell book with a level 1 spell is really strong.

The End.

Fantastic write up, thanks for taking the time to play and post your thoughts.

Oh man. If that’s the highlight, I think I need to just accept that this whole series isn’t for me. I played/suffered through most of BG1, lost the save, and now on the EE I’m somewhere in the beginning and won’t allow myself to skip to BG2 until I’ve fully completed BG1, which is silly but my own obsessive thing. But if BG1 stands out as the best part… I really don’t like that game very much. So I guess I can file this whole thing away. Loved Planescape though.

Umm, I wouldn’t. Most people love BG2 a lot more. Like infinitely so.

I just happen to really enjoy very low level D&D. The smaller encounters and magic being more limited but still quite deadly all the time. (due to low hit points and low resist/saving throws). I lost count how many times a single lightning bolt zig-zagged and body-bagged my entire party.

In BG2 the magic system gets at lot more wild because you start having to deal with layers and layers of magical protections.

There is like only one or two mages in BG1 that have a bunch of magic barries on (like immunity to normal arrows and…mirror image or something), and they are always very rare bosses.

I wonder if it’s just that I really, really don’t like RTwP. I loved the Dark Sun games, clunky as they were. Battles should be the highlight of D&D, and in Dark Sun, they were. In the Infinity Engine games, battles are just a mess.

Another thing I don’t like is the backgrounds. They are pretty, but empty. In a proper isometric game, the images represent real objects that are there for you to interact with. In Infinity engine games, the background was drawn beforehand, and then someone went and added some containers. Sometimes you have what looks like containers, but isn’t. I get the feeling of my characters moving through a painting where nothing is real except a few demarcated spots, rather than them being in a real interactive world.

First, thanks for the write-up. I recently replayed this myself and I got super sucked into it and ended up playing BG1 EE and it’s expansion and then BG2:EE and ToB myself, and had a wonderful time. The series really held up for me and I had a blast - though the crazy high level content of ToB wasn’t as wonderful as I remembered, and I think it was ultimately just like you said - too much of a combat slog and ultimately not that interesting. That wasn’t my original memory, but it felt that way now for sure.

However, I think BG:EE is kind of amazing - I’m a sucker for the lower level D&D stuff, I feel like it’s a little more interesting in general from levels 3-8 or so, and the story and characters (and in the Enhanced Edition, the engine/visuals/QoL stuff) are no less then BG:2, just lower scale. Playing BG1 and then 2 right after it didn’t really feel like two different games, rather one giant game (again, thanks to the Enhanced Editions of both) and I would urge anyone that is interested in trying them out to start with BG1 and import their save and also treat it like one big experience.

I just finished BG1 again as well, and have started in on 2. It’s bringing back so many great memories.

I don’t know how you evil-party people can play the game without Minsc. I just love Minsc (and Boo!)

All D&D campaigns should start from level 3. I enjoy low level play too, but “one bad die roll away from instant death” is no way to play anything.

Gosh yes. First couple of levels are SO VOLATILE. Starting a mage character is tough.

Counterpoint - Roguefrog is wrong. I would strenuously argue that everything about the BG experience gets better as you progress through the games and Bioware’s skill increases – the dialog, the quests, the stories, the NPCs, the enemies, the locations, the scale, the fun.

Certainly, the combat becomes a lot more complicated and there’s a lot going on as you gain levels. On the other hand, in BG1 your wizards are useless after they’ve cast 1-2 spells. This is 2nd Edition D&D rules, and they are certainly flawed. You also die a lot more because you have a lot less HPs.

I suspect Roguefrog’s experience was inferior because he went evil. This is an old game series, and going evil is not well rewarded. I tried going evil once and gave up.

I just love ToB, it’s incredibly epic. And Cespenar? Oh man. “OooOoooH! Shinies!”

Durlag’s Tower is way worse. You can figure out your way through Watcher’s Keep. In Durlag’s Tower I have look up all the puzzles they’re just so obtuse. Both Watcher’s Keep and Durlag’s Tower were bonus “endless dungeon” style content Bioware added. They are not very good. I usually only hit them looking for specific pieces of loot, then move on.

I only play Baldur’s Gate 1 if I can tweak the starting classes of all the characters. Too many cool kits just not used in BG 1.

Also, its fun to make almost all the specialist Human Mages Clerics, and duel class them into Wizards.

Just as a small counterpoint: I love BG1. It’s probably my most-replayed game…in fact, I know it is. I’ve played it to completion at least 6 times (I have all my final saves on a flash drive!), and I’ve started and abandoned new PC builds more times than I can count.

I just love the more freeform and exploration-driven nature of the first one. You’re just kind of on your own with low-level characters…every spell matters, every magic item, every potion you find matters. By the time you get halfway through BG2, you’re basically a demigod. Just not as fun for the way I like to play.

This is well said, and what I was trying to get at myself.

True. But you’re fighting other demigods. I understand the appeal of the low-level game, where every piece of loot matters. But in BG1, it’s just so limiting. So few spells and abilities and items. It’s boring.