Thanks, that makes me feel slightly less weird :)
The way the scenarios were constructed, with 4 different viewpoints total, really makes the game, and I wish the other games in the series had experimented with multiple scenarios.
2 was my favorite as well for a long time, but the mechanics just haven’t aged well for me. I can’t imagine dealing with that horrible inventory system, the gimped combat, and the fixed camera angles again after being set free from them. That’s completely leaving out the puzzles, which were unspeakably bad but still present to a much lesser degree in four. Hell, it’s those kinds of puzzles that stopped me from playing DMC4 this time, so I guess my tolerance for that has gone way down as well.
I like the story and everything, but a remake would have to be pretty substantially altered for me to be interested. I’m not trying to convince you or anything, I understand the difference of opinion. I tend to have real issues with backtracking in quality of gameplay, as my still unplayed copy of Twin Snakes can attest (sorry, not fixed enough Kojima).
Likewise, I’m not trying to convince anyone that RE2 is the best game in the series, and I can completely appreciate why people found 4 to be superior to the others. I think a lot of it just depends on what you got out of the series. I always liked the camp undertones to the story, and the fixed camera angels added to the tension for me. Even the tank style controls, inventory quirkiness and obscure puzzles were strengths to me, and with all of those elements missing the game felt less Resident Evily, to detrimental effect. The backtracking felt more like exploration to me (it’s a fine line between the two) and there weren’t random respawns or anything obnoxious like that to render the retreading of old ground tedious. In all, the earlier games felt more like adventure games to me, and RE4 took things in a very action direction, so it kind of lost me on that front.
Since I’m near the end of my Metal Gear Solid replays (finished 1 and 2, about 1/6th of the way through 3 after picking up the essential collection yesterday,) I may make Resident Evil my next target for replays. It’s been a while since I’ve played any of them, and I’m interested to see how time may have changed my perspective.
You’re not alone. I wholeheartedly dug what busted-Evil was doing before the great purging of RE4. The inventory juggling forced intentional risks on the player that factored into every facet of gameplay in both combat and exploration, which always intrigued me. It never was about poor controls or camera woes, but whether I have the resources and foresight to handle the roadblocks(zombies) resisting my path from objectives or checkpoints…(it’s kinda rogue-like actually in design)
It’s the sort of experience that is normally reserved for a very niche audience given it’s unorthodox and unrelenting gameplay tropes, making its huge popularity really strange.
I do dig on RE4, it is a quality game regardless of branding. REmake was a fitting crown and nail to the coffin that was the classic RE formula. Brilliantly executed.
Boy, I’d love to be able to watch you play these games LesJarvis. That’s one thing I always appreciated about the Resident Evil series. I saw my friend play most of the way through Resident Evil: Code Veronica, and I loved it. Just like you say, the tank style controls, the inventory quirkiness, the obscure puzzles, the respawning enemies, the fixed camera angles, they only added to his frustrations as a player, but they all added to my enjoyment as a viewer of the action. I felt the tension go up and up and up as a result of these gameplay decisions. And yet, if I ever tried to play the game myself, I couldn’t take it.
Having to deal with the controls and camera, and inventory when I’m the one at the controls is much harder to take. When someone else is driving its much easier to laugh it off as a gameplay quirk, and appreciate what it adds to the game on a cinematic level. The lead character looks more vulnerable when you see them fumbling around when a zombie is shuffling toward them and they can’t get their gun out and shoot properly. In the same situation as a player, that can be really frustrating, but as a viewer, it just makes it even more nail-biting.
I also saw the same friend play through RE4, which wasn’t nearly as entertaining to watch. It was more satisfying for him, because the controls weren’t as frustrating, and he had a better time, but I had a worse time as a viewer. So if I could watch someone like you play through the earlier RE games, and even the Metal Gear Solid games, with their frustrating camera restrictions, that would be ideal.
Off topic but related: Going through Metal Gear Solid 2 was fairly entertaining for me, despite the eye-roll-inducing story twists, because that game just oozes this quality that I can only describe as “cinematic”. It’s very compelling to watch, and if I have to force myself to play through frustrating controls, so be it. Especially because as a fan of sneaking gameplay, it was one of the few options out there for me. But after Splinter Cell came out and showed that you don’t have to have a frustrating control scheme to make a good modern sneaking game, I never looked back at the MGS series. Splinter Cell doesn’t have that “cinematic” quality though. I wish someone would make a hybrid of the two games, so that it would feel cinematic, and yet be fun to control and play like Splinter Cell.
Couldn’t disagree with you more on the MG point. The last thing I would wish on the franchise is integration of the ponderous stealth and controls of Splinter Cell (let alone the Clancy Lite plot). There’s plenty of games vying for the position of stealth experience that most rewards players who hate excitement and enjoy nudging an analog stick gently for hours at a time to interface with the guard’s routine just so. I liked the first Splinter Cell, but after that I was done with the series no matter how hard I tried to get back into it. It seems they are heading into more Bourne like territory, and I’m curious to see how that pans out in the long run.
MG has a steep learning curve, but in 2 it found a balance between stealth and dynamic action, and provided you with a perfect way to master it (VR lessons) so you could become something like the hero shown in the cutscenes during the actual gameplay. It could have done better, but unfortunately I think 3 lost sight of that goal and went in a slower, more pointlessly menu interrupted direction with no VR. I hope leaving the jungle behind will remedy that.
Anyway, I do see what you are talking about with the RE watching. I played RE2 switching with a friend, and my wife was obsessed with making me play Code Veronica for her entertainment. RE4 was probably less watchable, but playing it switching back and forth was an infinitely better experience for me. Now Eternal Darkness is the current fix, and probably after that (much to my chagrin as the guy who actually has to play the damned thing) Fatal Frame 3.
Actually we’re in agreement there. Nothing about the Splinter Cell plot was compelling. Only the gameplay itself, I thought, was what was attractive about Splinter Cell. Being able to see where you’re going, being able to control it using dual-analog sticks just like a first person shooter, while staying within the confines of sneaking gameplay, I thought was well done in Splinter Cell. I would kill for that kind of control scheme in MGS2.
There’s plenty of games vying for the position of stealth experience that most rewards players who hate excitement and enjoy nudging an analog stick gently for hours at a time to interface with the guard’s routine just so. I liked the first Splinter Cell, but after that I was done with the series no matter how hard I tried to get back into it.
Again, I agree. I only played the first Splinter Cell, then I was done with the series despite liking the controls and gameplay of the first. Splinter Cell just lacks that cinematic feel that I talked about that MGS has. And more than that, it lacks any kind of real compelling narrative that actually makes you care about the game.
It seems they are heading into more Bourne like territory, and I’m curious to see how that pans out in the long run.
Yeah, this new one might be the first Splinter Cell game since the first one where they’ll bring me back in.
MG has a steep learning curve, but in 2 it found a balance between stealth and dynamic action, and provided you with a perfect way to master it (VR lessons) so you could become something like the hero shown in the cutscenes during the actual gameplay.
That’s one thing I missed out on. I never played the VR missions since I disliked the control scheme so much. I’ll take your word for it, but I still find it doubtful that I would ever get good at that control scheme, the way you have to switch to first person with the right thumbstick, etc. To me it was always analogous to the Resident Evil games: an awkward control scheme that made the game really hard to control.
It could have done better, but unfortunately I think 3 lost sight of that goal and went in a slower, more pointlessly menu interrupted direction with no VR. I hope leaving the jungle behind will remedy that.
What’s funny about MGS3 is that unlike the previous games, it wasn’t even fun to watch. Every time I tried to watch one of my roommates play, he was moving slowly through the grass, having no idea where the enemy was until he switched to first person and could finally see that the guard was a few feet away. Not only was that frustrating to play, it was impossible to even watch without getting frustrated.
Anyway, I do see what you are talking about with the RE watching. I played RE2 switching with a friend, and my wife was obsessed with making me play Code Veronica for her entertainment. RE4 was probably less watchable, but playing it switching back and forth was an infinitely better experience for me. Now Eternal Darkness is the current fix, and probably after that (much to my chagrin as the guy who actually has to play the damned thing) Fatal Frame 3.
Yeah, I’m in the same boat. I’m actually enjoying playing Eternal Darkness these days, but am dreading playing Fatal Frame 3. The first 30 minutes or so I played of FF3 were just completely uninteresting. My first real fight with a “mother and daughter ghost team” was so frustrating, I stopped playing. But having spent $50 on it, I think I’ll pretty much have to force myself to get to the good parts that everyone keeps talking about.
I’ve got tons and tons of things to say about the MGS games right now, but I’m trying to save it up for a big essay that I’ll post here in a month or two. I will say that the Subsistence version of MGS3, which has a more standard 3rd person camera, is way more playable, and if you’ve never tried it before Rock8man it might be worth giving it a shot. The first three hours or so of that game are, unfortunately, really slow, with a lot of grass crawling (which the 3rd person camera makes way, way better.) If you can get past that it becomes a much better game.
That was something I always liked about Splinter Cell over MGS: the stealth controls. I tried playing both MGS and Twin Snakes and just couldn’t get used to how stealth worked.
Once you acclimate to the controls of MGS3, it can be a real silly experience for both the player and viewer. I hilariously entertained a few friends during the time trying stupid things like shooting the ropes off the drawbridge while hidden in the grass on shore just to dump strolling guards into the drink below. Tossing scorpions at hungry soldiers whom jump at the opportunity to eat something that immediately poisons them also was a hit.
I won’t disagree that MGS3 can be far too passive an experience. I’ve never enjoyed the direct gunplay, so the moment I am ever seen I immediately chow down on the death pill for a quick restart(because hiding till countdown is a long and tedious affair) and shooting the seemingly limitless backup respawns is equally as tedious. Grappling with the touchy camera and controls can make stealth less intuitive than you’d ever like, but when situational planning falls into place…pure brilliance.
As a watcher, the tossed porno mag followed by a furious cardboard box charge never gets old.
MGS3 really impressed me with how thoroughly the gameplay experience had been thought out. Shooting bridge ropes and feeding guards poisoned food being among many such examples. You can also pull all sorts of tricks on the bosses (like, when you get a particular disguise, you can go into a particular boss fight wearing it, and the boss will momentarily mistake you for the character that normally wears that uniform.)