Rise of Legends thread: Now with 30% less vitriol!

Okay, since there’s no place to actually talk about Rise of Legends without catching a stray credibility attack from me, a wild slap from Brett Todd, or ratings advice from DeepT, I figured I’d fire up this thread.

For those of you who miss Rise of Nations’ infinite queue button, I just found out last night that if you queue up ten units, the queue rolls over to infinite! I was playing Sharpe last night, who managed to do this to amass a crazy air force of piratas with only a single aerodrome.

Also, if you’re still having weird connection problems, it seems that the bulk of the errors have to do with invites. If you just host a custom game, usually folks can join just fine and the game will start.

I’ve been trying a few of the maps with strange set-ups and have to say I’m not really fond of them, but they add a few twists that are missing from the set-up options. The king of the hill stuff in Colisseum, the 3 vs. 1 in Doge’s Hammer, and the Deathmatch map have funky twists that actually subvert a lot of the game’s balance and tuning. Interesting changes of pace, though.

And does anything think the Vinci Leviathan really sucks as a Master Unit? Maybe it’s just that the Glass Dragon and City of Vengeance rock.

-Tom

But that’s a lot of resources to spend up-front just to enable a “continue building” feature. I prefer games that don’t take your resources until construction starts, because I don’t like having to wait to queue things up, and 10, well, 10 juggernauts is a LOT of timonium. You should never have that much unspent, even if you have the economy to put a steam fortress on permanent jug.

Well, if you are hosting then you never see any errors because people who can’t get in … I’ve certainly had issues unable to join custom games “Could not communicate with host” so it’s not a panacea. Just flashed a new router BIOS this morning, so hope springs eternal. I definitely want to start playing with you guys.

I’d think you’d have to use that burrowing power to make the Leviathan really kick ass.

Ya’ll are going to talk me into to getting this game.

And i know at my glacial pace by the time i’ve both decided to get it and found the time to make a run to the store; only to turn around at the last second and then try ordering it online, and wait 2 weeks for my slum-mail shipping option to arrive - no one on Qt3 will be playing.

Just go get the damn thing, it’s worth the in-store price. Do it now. We’ll all be playing this weekend.

Oh, yeah, good point. I’m suddenly a lot less enamoured of the infinite queue option.

I hear you, but it can be a problem. If you queue up enough stuff and run out of money, what then? How does the game prioritize what gets the limited money flow? Does it stop everything?

Dawn of War let you infinitely fill up and reinforce squads, but it had a global stop/start/pause option to control it. That was an interesting approach.

But Rise of Legends, like most RTSs, is clearly a ‘you queue it, you pay for it’ game (cue the TA fanbois!). I understand why it takes that approach, even if it does mean a bit more extra hassle.

SuperHiro, I don’t get how the burrowing power is useful. So the Leviathan can get its slow ass somewhere quickly, but it goes alone, where it can be overwhelmed? I’ll take a flying Glass Dragon of City of Vengeance over that any day. :)

Dude, you of all people need this game. For serious. If you’re not the sort of genre wonk this game was built for, no one is.

-Tom

I’m just talking from demo experience. Haven’t gotten around to installing.

But I’d use it as either

  • Main army engages another main army, then you send the leviathan off to mess up the other guy’s stuff.

  • A good boost to help a flagging teammate

  • A "send the nasty unit over to the rear where all the tasty weakling are.

Of course, some of these strategies won’t really work if the other guy has his superunit out.

If the game takes your resources when it actually starts production then it would just not start anything you couldn’t afford. You could give every building a “pause” toggle that the game would set if it could not afford the next unit in the queue. Then you could have a hotkey that cycles paused buildings, so it’s easy to see what’s on hold and quickly start it up when you can afford it. You could use the toggle as a player to make build order contingency plans you can execute quickly when you need to.

It would be pretty easy for a player to keep track of things, too. Any time you hover your mouse over a unit icon, it projects how much resources you will have when the building is ready, so you can see how it will fit into your other development plans. You’d only get shortfalls when your economy encountered an unexpected setback, which is exactly when you should get shortfalls, and when you should need to make the hard decisions about what to cut from your plans.

Speaking of TA…

If you changed the system so that the money is spent gradually as you’re building something, you’d just allocate the money proportionally over all projects and the build time of each project would increase.

I liked that option, but I didn’t like that once the squad was fully reinforced the game would forget the control and you’d have to tell it to auto-reinforce the next time you lost any squad members.

Circuit city has it for $35 this week too.

Mike, I’m not saying it can’t be done. But based on what you yourself is posted, I am going to go ahead and say it probably can’t be done without sacrificing a certain amount of accessibility. :)

Even PeterK’s suggestion – “the money is spent gradually as you’re building something” – can cause problems. For instance, right now in Rise of Legends, after you’ve clicked the wrench icon on a damaged structure, it repairs itself by gradually draining the cost from your Timonium pool. This is all well and good when you’re fixing up some diddly little marketplace or Condotierri camp for 25T.

But when you’re repairing a captured Great City and the total expense comes out to 1000T or so, it does some seriously funky stuff to your economy.

I agree that both approaches are viable, but I think it’s potentially less confusing to ask players to pay up front for buildings, units, upgrades, etc. I suspect that’s why most RTSs do it that way.

-Tom

Could you explain what you mean by “seriously funky stuff”? I’m not saying I disagree with you as I haven’t played RoL yet - I’m just curious what you mean. That sort of situation in TA works just fine, but it’s a different game.

You could also argue that’s it’s less confusing because most RTSs do it that way. :-) I have no idea if I’m representative of the average RTS player, but I didn’t think TA’s system was confusing. Whether it would work in RoL or not, I don’t know. TA didn’t have unit upgrades or technologies to research, so that might change things.

Are you sure that it still counts as 10 against you when you actual flip it over to infinite queue? Or does it switch back to charging you one unit per?

I’m still not sure why they needed to get rid of the infinite queue system from RoN, which worked. I’d prefer to be able to turn on the infinite queue if I don’t have enough money to build 10.

I’d also prefer to have the infinite queue turn on and stay on, not shutting off automatically just because I don’t have the coin to build a unit right now (it could start building once the money comes in).

In the demo, at least, your resource pops back up when you activate the infinite queue and it charges you as they are built. That is a really odd way to do it.

I might be overstating the case, but I just mean that in the late game, putting a huge drain on your economy like a 1000T repair job can really screw you up if you’re used to having a few barracks churning out reinforcements. And you’re liable not to notice until it’s too late. I’ve had games where I can’t pay for reinforcements and it’s only later that I realize it’s because all my resources were drained because I was fixing a big city.

SlyFrog, yeah, I just tried it. Apparently, you have to have enough money to pay for ten dudes. Which makes the infinite queue effectively useless for me.

Frankly, I’m glad it’s this way, as careful resource allocation is a big part of the strategy here. You can’t just turn stuff on or queue it up until you can pay for it. It’s almost like the argument for autocasting of spells, which is all well and good in some games, but not in games built around when and where you use your spells. Rise of Legends is very much built around when and were you use your resources.

-Tom

Great game with Peri and RogueWave just now (sorry for rushing you Peri), but got dropped in the middle, now it’s saying Can’t Authenticate CDKEY. Anyone else getting this?

Anyway, done for the night, thanks for the games. That 3v3 was awesome.

Awesome game – just got this tonight and played with some coworkers.

NOTE TO BHG FOLKS READING THIS: The expansion had BETTER have a Lovecraftian-type (read: Zergesque) race. It BETTER. Just sayin’. I need to kick Cuatl ass with some Elder Gods an’ shit.

I was assuming that you’d have some number on the screen that tells your rate of spending for each resource, again like TA (sorry :-). If you started a massive repair job that suddenly brings you into the red on spending you should notice it right away and cancel the repair (or cancel other things if the repair is more important). I’m also assuming that RoL is like RoN in that it tells you your resource collection rate.

As an aside, did RoN charge you resources for repairing buildings and cities? I never noticed it doing that, but maybe the amount was small enough to never cause me a problem.

Fair enough. I prefer the TA style, personally, and wish more games would use it.

As for casting of spells, I hope you’ll indulge me in a minor rant I’ve made before. I can’t stand having units with abilities that require the user to activate them manually. I understand your point about games being built around when and where you use your spells, but I don’t want any standard RTS to ever be built around that. Except maybe one unit that represents you, but that’s it.

I think Alin is the most “zerg-y” race currently in the game. It seems to be a real mobile race, and I’m having a heck of a time mastering it.

NOTE TO BHG FOLKS READING THIS: Ignore what Doug just said. The expansion needs a CHINESE themed race. I need to kick some ass with the Monkey King.