“Stricken” wasn’t one of the OMG OVERCHARTED songs for me when I was playing GH3. “3’s and 7’s” and “Raining Blood” shared the title there. I was a little surprised at how few notes Harmonix put in by comparison, considering most of the song is made up of some serious power chords.

But then, they’re the musicians, not me.

By the way, though, the most overcharted song I’ve ever played was actually a Harmonix-created one, even if it was in their somewhat half-assed Rocks the 80s. I’m talking, of course, of “What I Like About You…”

Damn it, “What I Like About You” took me longer to beat than “The Number of the Beast” did.

This, except that the Rock Band version actually looks like naptime. You’ll note that the GH3 chart for the main riff is identical to the Rock Band chart the second time it comes around (1:20 in the GH3 video, 1:13 in the RB video), at which point the riff is clearly being played single-note, where the intro is just as clearly using power chords. I never play guitar in these games anymore, but if I did, I would be annoyed by the RB charting.

On the subject of annoying RB charting, I have serious qualms with Harmonix’ decision to chart open/closed hi-hat hits differently, and to chart a closing hi-hat at all. It feels game-y and stupid. They clearly put a lot of thought into translating the experience of actually playing the drums into a limited array of inputs, but charting open/closed to yellow/blue (or red/blue in some cases) has no basis in reality. GH:WT’s approach (making the closed hi-hats into the “style” notes or whatever, where you hit it harder to get more points) is imperfect, but it can at least be ignored.

Yeah, “What I Like About You” was pretty ridiculous.

What I Didn’t Like About Stricken in GH3: it seemed unnaturally hard to me relative to what I was “hearing” in the song, more so than even Raining Blood. That’s what I meant by overcharting.

This is of course completely subjective, but someone at Harmonix must agree, based on the RB2 chart for the song.

I don’t buy this at all.

The design philosophy behind the original Guitar Hero seems to be trying to capture the mental space that you feel when you play the real guitar – not to exactly replicate the experience of playing a real guitar. I think they just extended that to the drums in Rock Band.

Yes, a lot of the stuff in Rock Band translates literally, but some doesn’t, and I don’t think that’s a problem since they weren’t trying to implement an exact replica of real drum playing. Reusing the same drums for both toms and cymbals, or swapping the hi-hat and the snare also have no basis in reality, but they don’t strike me as game-y; they strike me as the best way to get you into a similar mental space as a real drummer given the limited inputs.

The open hi-hat feels similar to me. If I want to play an open hi-hat on a particular beat on a real drum kit, it requires a certain kind of mental effort. It’s not the same kind of mental effort as hitting a different drum, but it’s way more like hitting a drum than like hitting a pad harder – which wasn’t even in the space of possible inputs for RB1. Not charting them is the thing that I’d think was “stupid”.

So, to me it doesn’t feel game-y; to me it helps capture the feeling of “oh, I have to do something different here, and oh I can hear something different happened”. Obviously a left-foot-pedal would be a more “realistic” solution, but I don’t think their solution is that problematic.

(As for charting audible hi-hat closings, doing than on a real drum kit feels even more like hitting a drum pad than an open hi-hat beat does – admittedly, it’s hitting it with a foot in real life – and so I find absolutely nothing wrong with charting it as a drum hit.)

((In fact, you can set up a edrum kit to actually use separate pads for closed, open, and closing, so in one sense what they’ve done is perfectly realistic. In fact, it’s exactly the experience I have if I try to play a sampled drum kit from a keyboard.))

Rock Band Country Pack announced

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58589

13 of the track pack’s 21 tracks have been announced, listed below. Country brings many new tracks to Rock Band which Harmonix says will be exclusive to the Country pack “for a limited time” before being released as downloadable content.

  1. Alan Jackson - Good Time
  2. Brooks & Dunn - Hillbilly Deluxe
  3. Dierks Bentley - Free & Easy (Down the Road I Go)
  4. Dixie Chicks - Sin Wagon
  5. Drive-By Truckers - 3 Dimes Down
  6. Jason Aldean - She’s Country
  7. Kenny Chesney - She Thinks My Tractor’s Sexy
  8. Kenny Rogers - The Gambler
  9. Lucinda Williams - Can’t Let Go
  10. Martina McBride - This One’s For the Girls
  11. Rascal Flatts - Me and My Gang
  12. Shania Twain - Any Man of Mine
  13. Steve Earle - Satellite Radio

kinda meh, but damn, The Gambler? That’s epic.

On a warm, summer’s evening…

Edit: Curses!

Wasting too much effort on this old double-wide, my wife left me but I still got the hound dog so I don’t care shit.

Except for the Gambler, which will be cheesy fun.

I like the GH3 Stricken chart much better. The RB2 version seems boring after playing the song in GH3 for so long.

I consider “overcharting” to be seeing notes on the screen where I do not hear them in the music. I know nothing about real life guitar playing. But to me the most overcharted song I’ve ever played is Snow by RHCP in Rock Band. He may be playing all of those notes, but I do not hear them in the music.

SIGH…

I wish that the universe would end its stubborn refusal to recognize the fact that country music did, in fact, exist before Garth Brooks voided his bowels all over it. The only song on there that I own in my at least respectable country collection is The Gambler, and I don’t like it that much, because there’s better Kenny Rogers to be had. It’s not like there’s not artists that would work. Waylon Jennings would be a decent fit, for instance. Did the vault where RCA keeps all their original masters catch fire or something?

To me, the difference between playing a closed/open hi-hat isn’t “oh, I have to do something different now,” it’s “oh, I have to hit exactly the same thing but lift my foot up a bit.” GH:WT understands this and goes with the “hit this one harder” approach to make it seem like you take a slightly different action to get a different sound; as I said, this isn’t a perfect approach, but at least it aligns with my expectations. RB has you artificially swinging back and forth in a way that just doesn’t mimic how the real instrument works, nor does it get me in remotely the same mental space. Same goes for charting a closing hi-hat, where I am called upon to hit something with my hand when in reality I would absolutely not be doing so.

As far as re-using the pads as both cymbals and toms, this doesn’t feel gamey to me because it more or less maps the real instrument while making sacrifices to the limits of a videogame controller. On a real kit, you’ve got your cymbals arranged in basically the same way the RB kit arranges them, and similarly with the toms.

Ultimately, I just wish Harmonix would come out with a viable dual-pedal setup and expand their charting to include that second pedal.

Well, there are still 8 more songs for them to announce. Like always, I’m guessing they’re saving the good stuff to announce later. E3 maybe?

Come on, Cash.

Careful what you wish for. If Harmonix released that, I’d almost expect it to be the Johnny Cash and the Heartbreakers (he borrowed them from Petty for at least one of the American Recordings series) stuff from his late life. It’s not horrible, but it’s not The Man in Black either, and I kind of expect it would be almost impossible to sing if you are not yourself over seventy or a sufferer of chronic bronchitis.

Actually, you can’t sing with a rasp or growl in RB. If you do, it doesn’t register the notes properly. That’s why singing Metallica sucks in this game. If I sing it like Hetfield, I fail.

See, for me it’s like the experience of playing the guitar: you have to do two things at the same time (fret a note and strum it; raise the foot and hit the hi-hat). It’s a challenge of, well, coordinating.

Guitar Hero tries to capture the physicality of the guitar experience in that specific case (requiring simultaneous action), but Rock Band doesn’t try to capture the physicality of the open-hi-hat experience because it exceeds the capabilities of their input controls. I agree with you on that. But as far as I can see your claim here is that it feels wrong compared to the real thing – that is, it’s not realistic enough.

To me it is unrealistic in pretty much exactly the same way Guitar Hero is unrealistic. Playing GH is nothing like playing the guitar in practice (many things that are hard in Guitar Hero put the difficulty on the left hand where in the actual guitar part the left hand barely moves and the right hand has to do a complicated cross-string picking patterns). But I find the mental experience in the zone feels a lot like the mental experience of being in the zone playing a real guitar.

To me, this unrealism isn’t game-y, it’s just unrealism brought about by the limited input controls, and that’s just fine by me. It makes me feel like I’m playing on an instrument that could plausibly be producing the sounds I’m hearing and requires a similar amount of mental effort (not physical effort!) to coordinate. (This is what I meant by “similar mental space”.) The actual problem requires an extra limb operating an extra device, so switching an existing limb to a different device seems a fine approximation to me in terms of the mental effort involved. (For a beginning drummer, I imagine it’s actually easier.)

I think that’s their goal, I think it’s a fine goal, and I don’t have any problem with their execution of it.

We can (and perhaps do) disagree over how a real open-hi-hat feels versus how the RB open-hi-hat feels, but I just think you’re overstating the importance of realism, especially if it induces you to call their choice “game-y and stupid”.

I of course agree that a charted hi-hat pedal would be superior for realism (I explained why I thought it would be a more valuable addition than a second bass-drum pedal on another thread), but the charting problem probably makes that a non-starter.

Actually, I guess that it was probably game-y-ness that led them to limit things to three limbs (well, and cost, but) in expert mode. Probably a tiny fraction of the population is playing expert mode drums, and to have required four limbs to pull it off would have driven that fraction of the population even smaller. But given that you accept 3-limb-input, my above comments stand.

I can’t find The Replacements - Kids Don’t Follow, which is the one I was looking forward to this week. Did they forget to post it, or am I just missing it?

There was a problem with it, it’ll be released Later™.

I don’t know, I’ve been pretty successful pulling off my Lemmy “Six-Packs-A-Day” Kilmister impression during “Ace of Spades.” Granted, I do it on hard, not expert.

The only songs I really sing on expert are the death metal growlers. Easy to 100%, fun as hell to sing.

“Folsom Prison Blues,” please.

Isn’t it kind of the exact opposite of subjective, since someone has to perform a very specific set of actions in order to recreate that sound on a real guitar?

As was discussed after this post, there is some abstraction going on all the time in these games, but the fact that you basically can’t play anything on a guitar without simultaneously using three fingers on your left hand makes me more forgiving of the three note chords that seem to bother so many other people.

As for the drum discussion that’s going on, one good point about Rock Band using 2 different inputs for an open and a closed hi-hat is that you can successfully play that on a real kit if you built the midi adapter or use the GHWT kit’s midi adapter. If they didn’t chart hi-hat closes (which is a ludicrous suggestion, btw) or if they charted open and closed together, there would be less information available for you to know how to correctly play the song on a real kit.