Rome: Total Thread

Picked this up today.

Having a lot of fun. The tactical stuff is like the demo, that is, better but not very different than M:TW.

The campaign though, after 4 hours of play, is much better. Easier to manage AND more fun. The Senate missions are alright, but seem to have the problem of any AI-generated mission in any game, namely that they don’t seem to take into account reality. I mean, there’s no way I can get s ship over to blockade that port, and if I try, but the time it gets there it won’t be needed.

The faction stuff is cooler, the family tree is cool.

Looking forward to more playing of this.

Is it generally as quick and deadly as it was in the demo battle?

The Senate will supposedly try to overstretch you sometimes if you’re doing well. It could just be an excuse for bad mission generation, though. Are the consequences for not completing a mission harsh?

Played the game about 5 hours last night, will spend alot more time on the weekend.

No the battles take a bit longer, im not sure if its actually different from the demo though. Could just be the conditions of the battles im fighting. I didn’t have a problem with the demo speed, the Trebia battle was a bit fast but when using the mod program to make custom battles they usually took a bit longer depending on the unit settings.

There aren’t any real consequences for not completing. The ones I completed they gave me a bunch of money, the ones I failed they gave me nothing. Though you can get family members in the senate somehow, there are like 6-7 offices that are mainly held by senate faction members but they change and sometimes members of the three houses will be in them. Not sure how this works yet but I did get a member from my house in the senate, I guess failing senate missions would make this difficult so there is more consequence to failing than just not getting money.

Great battle story last night. I started the main campaign as Scipio, the senate ordered I take Syracuse located in Sicily (held by the greeks). I had taken other towns but this was the first with a stone wall. So I built up an army and marched their. Now unlike MTW you cannot assault a fortified city without seige weapons, but its not really a problem as the basic ones (ladders, battering rams, etc) can be built on site it just requires you take a turn building them while holding the seige.

So I build two sets of ladders and one battering ram then assaulted the city. My army consisted of 5 units of Hastati, 1 archer, 1 town watch, and the general with his cavalry. This is very early in the campaign so Hastati is my most adv unit.

I placed the two ladder units which were hastati far to the right, then the battering ram with the rest of the army facing the gate. My plan was simply to take and get over the wall on the far right and break through the gates with the main force once the battering ram did its job. The two units that climbed the wall would simply be there to try and get the Greeks to divert forces from the main gate and possibly hit their defending force at the gate in the rear.

At the battle start I ordered the ladders to take the wall near them and the ram to start heading for the gate. The towers on wall automatically fire arrows at attackers until they take that section of wall or its breached. Basically like MTW. What I didn’t know was that the gate had more deadly firepower than just arrows. As the battering ram moved closer to the gate it launched a bunch of fire balls, either fire arrows or something bigger didn’t get a good look at them. But what happened was it destroyed my battering ram before it could even reach the game. Unlike MTW you cannot order units to simply attack the gate, so without any more seige weapons it was simply impossible for my force to take the gate that turn. I did try to attack the gates with one unit of hastati but they simply wouldn’t attack, i even moved them close but that didn’t help as they wouldn’t attack and the gate dumped a bunch of oil on them and several caught fire and died. Impressive graphically.

This ruined my plans as the two units of hastati had managed to climb the wall on the right and were already on the ground on the other side but now took the full brunt of the defenders and were quickly destroyed. I marched my force over to the ladders and had some more hastati climb the wall but they were taken out peicemeal by the greek hoplites.

So instead of losing my whole army I withdrew the forces I had left and lost the battle.

Very fun stuff, in Total War games I always enjoy most the battles I lose especially when trying not to. While this loss can be chalked up to inexperience it doesn’t make a difference to me, thats part of the fun.

The Senate will supposedly try to overstretch you sometimes if you’re doing well. It could just be an excuse for bad mission generation, though. Are the consequences for not completing a mission harsh?

No. You don’t get the reward, which is sometimes cool (like a high-quality unit, or money) and sometimes… not. I’ve had them promise to give me “extra special consideration” for senate office appointments, only to turn around and give appointments to every faction except mine. They’re politicians, I guess, so what can you expect? Sometimes their offers are really vague, like “A very valuable reward.” Caveat emptor.

If you continually fail (or refuse to embark on) senate missions, they get pissed at you, and your standing on the senate floor goes down. Failing one mission generally won’t hurt you much. And I do fail the blockade ones from time to time, especially when my fleets are on the other end of the Mediterranean from the port that they want me to blockade.

Though you can get family members in the senate somehow,

That’s the other benefit to completing senate missions–it increases your chances, in general, of winning a senate appointment.

The campaign though, after 4 hours of play, is much better.

I agree. The spotlight has been on the battles, which do indeed look really cool, though they are functionally very similar to Medieval’s, with a few exceptions, like a better interface, much larger maps, and a lot more of them–basically a custom map for every “space” on the campaign map. But the campaign game is totally different from past Total War games. The changes they have made (like going to a more Civ-like map rather than having province-to-province movement) fundamentally change how the game plays (for the better).

I also like the mechanics of settlement management–if you want to control what goes on in the settlement, you need to place a commander there to function as governor (but only while he is in the settlement… if he is in the field–even in the same province–he can’t act as governor). You can turn this option off when you start a campaign, but don’t do it! This is one of the campaign game’s most interesting mechanics. If you send your commander into the field, the town reverts to automanage. You can queue up a laundry list of stuff for the town to build before he goes, but you can’t change the list without bringing him (or another commander) back to the town. So there’s a sort of “guns or butter” mechanism where you simultaneously want your commanders leading troops but also need them to manage settlements. And once you have more settlements than commanders, you have to pick and choose which ones you want to hand-manage. This has the additional benefit of keeping the management portion of the game from growing too onerous.

Now unlike MTW you cannot assault a fortified city without seige weapons, but its not really a problem as the basic ones (ladders, battering rams, etc) can be built on site it just requires you take a turn building them while holding the seige.

I like this mechanic a lot, mostly because it makes more sense. Simple seige weapons, like rams and ladders, are not something that an army would lug around, because they can easily be constructed on the site of the seige. Basically, when you beseige a city, you get a number of build points based (I think–the manual doesn’t explain this well, and neither does the Prima guide) on the terrain. So more trees = more build points. You can also skip the seige equipment altogether and simply wait out the opposing army. Their forces will dwindle a bit each turn from starvation, and eventually they will be forced to surrender the city (or, if they think they can beat you, they’ll sally). If you can afford the time, it’s always better to try to starve out the defenders, because you won’t lose any men that way.

Ben, the “greatly rewarded” usually means 5,000 or 10,000 denarii.

The Senate doesn’t try to over-stretch you if you’re doing well. They just pick enemies for you to hit, rather randomly. It’s up to you if you choose to go after them. In the long run, it has little effect, since if you continue to succeed, your popularity with the mob will drive the Senate to hate you anyway.

I think the battles are very different from the demo. For starters, the odds aren’t stacked ridiculously in your favor. Yes, as a good human player, I can usually take 2:1 odds in roughly equivalent units. Remember how the elephants alone could plow through the entire Roman formation? While elephants are powerful, even they will get bogged down. Plus, they rout more easily.

Build points rely solely on the numbers of soldiers in your army, though only infantry can man siege equipment.

The Prima guide is utter garbage. Don’t get it. The manual’s more useful for crying out loud.

I’ll disagree about the automanage option. The AI will never Romanize a population, leading to constant revolt problems. I know you can send a governor in, but there’s already enough incentive to have governors - money.

Finally, I suggest you don’t play with “huge” unit scale. The AI is utterly incompetent at managing population at that level. It’ll build those 160 or 240 man units until its cities are depleted.

That was what I thought, at first, but I’ve had maxed-out armies that lacked the build points to build all of the seige equipment, at times. So there must be another factor involved.

The Prima guide is utter garbage. Don’t get it. The manual’s more useful for crying out loud.

I agree. I didn’t buy mine–it’s a photocopied version that Activision sent me. But I wouldn’t recommend buying it, anyway. 2/3rds of the manual is a list of unit and building stats that is already available in the game, the rest is a random spattering of vague advice. WRT to the build point issue, for instance, the Prima guide just parrots what the manual says about them (basically just that you get them when you beseige a settlement), but it doesn’t explain how they are generated, or offer any useful advice on how to spend them.

I’ll disagree about the automanage option. The AI will never Romanize a population, leading to constant revolt problems.

That has not been my experience. The one automanage function that often leads to revolt is the “military development” setting. Your populace tends to hate that. I have plenty of automanage settlements in my current game that are green and happy, though. Sometimes there are isolated problems, and that’s when you need to consider sending in a commander to sort things out. And I always try to park a commander in a settlement for a little while after I conquer it, to put affairs in order. And it’s certainly true that you can hand-manage a settlement better than the automanage can, but that’s what makes the “where do I send my commanders” decision interesting. I vastly prefer keeping the “no governor, automatic automanage” mechanic switched on.

Finally, I suggest you don’t play with “huge” unit scale. The AI is utterly incompetent at managing population at that level. It’ll build those 160 or 240 man units until its cities are depleted.

I generally leave this at the default “large” setting.

A nasty head cold has prevented me from rushing out to EB to get this, and now I am getting even more antsy…Thanks guys.

Anyone care to list the historical battles available? As a big time fan of the Great Battles series, I am looking forward to trying some of these.

Troy

Bah, head cold. Walk it off! The game’s just waiting for you at EB, forlornly crying out, “buy me…buy me…”

Get thee behind me, Satan.

Troy

I have two “game” stores in my remote “town”.

My question is “Hello. Do you have Rome: Total War in yet for PC?”

Hastings Entertainment (Short version): “It says on the computer the game arrived yesterday. But it sometimes takes them a few days to get it out the trays and on the shelves. No, there is nothing short of using a killdozer that you can do to convince us to put them out. Yes, we will actively and aggressively refuse to sell this product to you until we are good and ready.”

Wal-Mart: “Sir, the game’s not on my list. Are you sure you’ve got the game right? Sir, I heard you, but there’s no such game. Sir, I can’t help you with a game that doesn’t exist. It’s not on my list.”

Head cold? Weak excuse. Romans faced wolves, deep forests, snow storms and impassable rivers to get at their Germanic foes. You’d get stopped by a head cold? Pah!

Battles:

Lake Trisamine, 217 BC
Raphia, 217 BC
Telamon, 225 BC
Siege of Gergovia, 53 BC
River Trebia, 218 BC
Asculum, 279 BC
Carrhae, 55 BC
Cynoscephalae, 197 BC
Teutoburg Forest, 9 AD
Siege of Sparta, 272 BC

Seems like it’s killdozing time!

Head cold? Weak excuse. Romans faced wolves, deep forests, snow storms and impassable rivers to get at their Germanic foes. You’d get stopped by a head cold? Pah!

Battles:

Lake Trisamine, 217 BC
Raphia, 217 BC
Telamon, 225 BC
Siege of Gergovia, 53 BC
River Trebia, 218 BC
Asculum, 279 BC
Carrhae, 55 BC
Cynoscephalae, 197 BC
Teutoburg Forest, 9 AD
Siege of Sparta, 272 BC[/quote]

No Pharsalus? No Cannae? No Pydna? No Bibracte?

sigh

And, yes, I’m a wuss. But if I start acting healthy, all this TLC from the missus will turn into “Why haven’t you cleaned the bathroom like I asked?”

Troy

Sure, that’d work to get you into the back room. But what good is a mound of crushed copies of Rome:TW? And what good is an intact copy if you can’t leave the killdozer to play it because of all the cops shooting at you?!?!?!

Maybe a killdozer with a robot arm (anyone else old enough to remember the Six Million Dollar Man episodes where ol’ Steve was fighting the Venusian probe robot gone amok, with its scary buzzsaw arm, that he finally destroyed by hitching it to a cargo helicopter which lifted it high enough that the low pressure made it blow up?) that could pick up the game and bring it into the killdozer’s cab where you, of course, have a gaming PC set up and ready to play it…

I guess that’s one way to get more time for gaming… “Let me finish this level or I’ll demolish your whole town!” :shock:

Cheers!
Rob

(p.s. sorry for that run-on sentence… NOT! :twisted:)

Man, that sucks. I really loved how Medieval changed when you switched to huge units. Hope someone mods some intelligence into the AI, then.

Anyone tried a MP game yet? I’ve never played any of the TW games so i’m wondering if they’re any fun in MP? Either way I’m heading out to EB in a couple of hours to grab this.

OMFG Just tried to take Carthage with a force of over 900 men. Odds are about 9 to 1 in my favor. Look at the result.

Don’t mess with Hasdrubal I guess.

I took Carthage with a fairly large force against a rather small force, but as I knew I could not hold it I sold off all of the buildings I could, slaughtered the inhabitants, and ran away. Eventually the Nubians wiped it out.

I’ve been playing as the Julii, beating up on the Gauls and Britons.

I did this battle against one warband, figured that I’d just archer them to death, and they just stood there taking it. Then I looked back at my troops and realize that 40 of my brand new Principes got arrowed in the back by the archers that were standing right in front of them uphill.

Doh.

Gaul’s almost dead for me. They hid a country behind Spain, so I have to go find them. The Britons pissed me off too.

I like how the governor system makes you focus in one place – it also keeps the game much more manageable than previous ones.

I want to play this, badly, but I just hate the time setting. It seems like every Roman sim is set during the Republic. I want the Empire, dammit!. You could even keep the family stuff, by letting you represent factions and take on assignments from the Emperor rather than the Senate. And maybe even turn on the Emperor and march on Rome after victories abroad. Seems possible, anyways, based on what I’ve read about the engine and structure of the game.

Anyhow, I really hope RTW gets the expansion treatment like the rest of the games in the series, and that they move forward to something like Trajan’s wars of conquest, or maybe all the crazy stuff during the reigns of the Soldier Emperors in the 3rd century.