There’s a very real problem with RT3 and DVD drives. I suspect it has to do with idiotic copy protection. I was able to install it on two different PC’s from DVD’s but when I put the play disk in it autoplays and when I click on PLAY it tries to access the drive for a while and then nothing. Two different PC’s, two different DVD drives.
I installed it on a third system with CD only and it works great. I don’t blame you Phil, I blame the publishers who insist on using copy protection. There were some other games that were patched to remove these ignant cd checks. Morrowind and, lets see… Diablo II? come to mind.
(I played for a couple of hours on my 3rd option and I gotta say: This game rocks! Now, I want to play it on my first choice without switching the DVD player for a CD.)
No way, only people using pirated copies of the game have problems with copy protection. I mean, surely publishers wouldnt pay MONEY to prevent customers from playing their games would they?
Typically when you do that, you nonetheless have to local a cracked executable that circumvents the copy protection.
I had to do that GTA3, GTA3 VC, Halo, and Max Payne 2.
I’ve taken to buying the games, then downloading the entire ISOs via torrent to save me the trouble of ripping the game and tracking down the standalone cracks. Most pirate ISOs have those cracks included.
same “issue” with my machines; i’ve got a small variety of dvd readers ( ancient creative-branded 2x & a pioneer 106) and a dvd writer (optorite dd0203)- results are that the game works in the pioneer, but not in the writer or the creative drive.
works fine in all my cd drives, at least.
give it a couple of days before something pops up on gamecopyworld.
while i dislike the protection, the game is (for me) very much worth the cost… (plus, gamestop sent me a copy of RT2:Platinum- perfect for one of my friends who still runs a circa 1997 machine.)
Typically when you do that, you nonetheless have to local a cracked executable that circumvents the copy protection.
I had to do that GTA3, GTA3 VC, Halo, and Max Payne 2.
I’ve taken to buying the games, then downloading the entire ISOs via torrent to save me the trouble of ripping the game and tracking down the standalone cracks. Most pirate ISOs have those cracks included.[/quote]
I suspect he’s just like the publisher, who’d love not to have to pay Macrovision or whoever it is to protect the CDs.
Maybe we need to blame the hardware manufacturers.
There were some other games that were patched to remove these ignant cd checks. Morrowind and, lets see… Diablo II? come to mind.
Most did it well after the game was on shelves, meaning they weren’t really losing sales to piracy at that point. (Morrowind’s was a really weird situation where it apparently caused a performance issue.)
By the way, works fine for me with my Lite-on DVD/CD-RW. Wish someone could explain what causes the problem with certain drives; sometimes you’ll even find the same drive in two systems will have different results. Maybe it’s on an IDE controller level? I think some CDs have had firmware updates that made them work.
I was having problems with my DVD drive for Max Payne 2, then I grabbed an unauthorized DVD firmware update that appears to have made all my problems go away.
It’s a tough situation, and I think people on the publisher side are VERY aware of potential CP issues and trying very hard not to inconvenience paying customers, but on the flip side, when roughly 25-50% of your audience contemplates stealing your product (less in U.S., middle in Western Europe, much higher piracy rates on fringes of Europe and in Asia), it’s sort of a no-win game. I insisted that the CP on RT3 be the lightest possible variety (which also tends to be the least likely to cause issues) - I know it’ll be cracked within days, if it hasn’t already, but if it deters casual piracy with minimal false negatives for legitimate users, then it’s worth it.
Just look at the music industry - something like a 30% decline in 3 years time since the advent of Napster. And after years of 10-15% growth, PC game sales flatlined 2 or 3 years ago and fell 5% over the last year, more or less in synch with the music industry. Meanwhile, on console, where chip-level anti-piracy means only the hardcore pirates games, console game sales have been booming. Draw your own conclusions.
Unfortunately, it’s really guesswork as to how much of an impact CP has on piracy, how many legitimate users have issues, and so on. The people who have issues make the most noise on-line (I would do the same), but is that 1% of all buyers? 3%? More? I know T2 tends to be pro-active on this and IIRC, if a user legitimately can’t run the game, they’ll send another disc, a different game, a refund, or whatever. I’d guess EA and Activision would be the same, but I don’t know about the smaller publishers.
There are no perfect solutions. I suspect that within 12 to 24 months, most major PC game makers will go to on-line unlocking systems like Microsoft uses for XP and Office. That’s fraught with it’s own issues right now, and I’m not sure I like the solution myself, but I sense that’s where things will move.
Well said sir, alas your piracy figures are low for the US :(
With Subspace (an online only game sold at retail) we could track unique users and we also knew exactly how many retail units we had sold and so had an unusual insight into real piracy rates in the US. It was 7-1 back then (thats right for every copy we sold seven people stole it). I can only imagine its got much higher since 1997 given the expansion of broadband.
After Subspace I knew I was going to be in the online subscription/payment games business sooner or later. I agree with your prediction of where things are headed as well, nobody wants to be the next music industry.
RT3 is a Great game btw. Looks like you guys had WAY too much fun developing it :)
Bad news:
The protection was circumvented the day the product hit retail shelves.
This happened on 10/24/2003, according to http://www.theisonews.com.
Good news:
The protection was circumvented the day the product hit retail shelves.
The minimum-wagers at the CD duplicator didn’t sneak copies home for their pals, and neither did anyone with access to a press copy.
How would they not? Do you really think that for every person who buys a game, seven would have problems with Safedisc or who download cracks and ISOs?
You don’t think unique logins and serial numbers gets people to the store to buy Battlefield 1942, Unreal Tournament, and Quake III? At least it does it people want to actually play them online.
From the other side, is it at all surprising that the relatively poor-selling NOLF series has at-best mediocre multiplayer? Might those two things be related, since it also requires a unique number in multiplayer?
People feel no compulsion to buy single-player games, particularly in certain genres. The games that typically sell in big numbers are those that appeal outside of the core gamer market or to an older demographic (The Sims, RollerCoaster Tycoon, maybe Railroad Tycoon), or those that require some sort of online validation because of strong multiplayer.
So if you’re making a shooter, it better have good multiplayer otherwise people will just warez it for the single-player game. That’s a big generalization about the shooter fan, sure, but it’s probably also true for fans of real-time strategy and role-playing games as well. Turn-based strategy games probably sell as well as possible, since the people that dig them are probably more willing to buy them.
How would they not? Do you really think that for every person who buys a game, seven would have problems with Safedisc or who download cracks and ISOs?
[/quote]
They could easily not; it comes down to how many of the pirates would actually buy the game if that were the only option.
I don’t mind online activation per se, but what happens when I try to install it again several years later? I like to play old games.
So, my first question is why do the software pubs and their associations allow websites like gamecopyworld.com to live? You’d think they could DMCA them to death.
Secondly, since apparently they can’t get rid of them - because they’d have done it by now if they could, I’m sure - then we have the issue of 0-day cracks that exchange the game’s main .exe file for a non-checking version. Even Valve’s attempt with Steam won’t work, because somewhere in the .exe it must boil down to a “yes/no” authorization to let you play the game. All it takes is a hex editor and a dump of memory registers to see right where that 0/1 is and flip the bit permanently on. Protection is gone.
Thus, here comes the old argument again… why do they bother with cd-based protection? If I can pull the files off the cd, then I can make a backup that will install itself. Then pop a fixed .exe on it and I’ve got a fully working copy - no special cd burner tricks, no skill needed. CD protection only prevents 2 things - 1-1 copies and legit customers playing the game sometimes.
The thought occurred to me that they might try putting a protection check in the installer itself, since if you can’t install it you can’t play it - heck even have the installer “call home” and validate your key before you can install. Well it’s subject to not only the “fixed .exe” syndrome but also Microsoft’s own MSI installer system, since Mr. Pirate need only install once and make an MSI snapshot of it - then you can toss the corporate installer in the trash and just distribute the MSI file. So, that doesn’t work either.
Basically, if I can read the data on the cd, I can find a way to copy it. If I can’t read the data, it’s no good to anyone, so if you sell something it will always be copyable. Drop the cd-error protection, please. Its time has long passed, put it on the shelf with the code-wheels and red-cellophane table lookups. The shit doesn’t work at all anymore - ZERO. Even joe trailerpark can go to gamecopyworld.com and crack your game in 2 minutes.
Serial numbers are the ONLY thing that works. They ONLY work on multiplayer games where I have to talk to the key-checker to play. The serial number shouldn’t be something I have to type in… it should be unique and burnt into the cd I’m playing from. Keygens are useless against that, and I can NEVER misplace my serial number.
And the idea of the company eliminating the copy protection via a patch down the road doesn’t take into account companies going belly up, being absorbed, or laying off everyone who knows anything about Game X. The latter two problems can be solved by creating the “no CP” patch when the game is built, but then you have to count on that not leaking.
Joe User who doesn’t know where to find torrent sites and can’t be bothered to deal with the mess that Kazaa puts on your system or doesn’t yet have broadband who would otherwise burn a copy for his cousin with his $20 cd burner, but isn’t going to bother to go search for a crack, find a CD burning program that will duplicate physical sector errors or the like.
I’d wager that’s the only group that publishers think they actually affect. The real question is how many pirated copies are due to that? Further, as broadband becomes more and more popular and your average user becomes more and more savvy (due to the aging of generations of kids who’ve grown up with computers), how will this figure shift?
I think online verification is going to happen. I think further that the only way to ensure the security folks want is to authenticate the copy of the game every time you try to play, not just when you install (a la MMORPG). Whether that will go over, or developers will be forced out of business except in odd niche markets on the PC due to this is up in the air. Consoles are innately more secure, although I can see days coming when that will be gotten around just as easily.
