I am going to disagree with you, largely because I am not white and I know what discrimination feels like… not in theory.
So you think that you should be forced to do business with some, say, anti vaxxers? Or a white supremacist?
Again, why would you WANT to buy a cake from this dick? Why do you want to give him money?
Because you literally have no other options in some cases.
If I am selling Coca-Cola for 1 dollar. I am selling it to everyone for a dollar. I live in Trump country Timex. There is a confederate flag down the street and a Truck with a bumper stick with Keeping it White on it down the street. If I opened a store here, I would service everyone. This is not some sort of philosophical debate for me. I am around people who would not sell me water as i died in the street because I am not white. I absolutely support a law that says you have a choices, and when you decide to sell, rent or service the public, you service the entire damn public.
Yeah dude, the couple getting married in Massachusetts literally could find no one else to bake them a cake, then a bakery in Colorado.
Timex, are you familiar with the legal standards surrounding a protected class? That limits the ability of a business to interpret those “refuse service for any reason” rules that are otherwise enforceable.
In particular, sexual orientation is often considered covered under gender discrimination. I believe (lawyerly folks please correct me if I am mistaken), that’s what’s being called into question in this case.
I’m really looking forward to the next episode of this podcast:
Churches let you donate to them without paying taxes, they don’t get taxes, and they don’t have financial reporting requirements like other non-profit charities.
So if you are a general contractor, you should absolutely be forced to do work for Trump, even though he not only is a terrible person, but has a reputation for being dishonest in his business dealings…
You don’t believe THAT, right?
Or, you know, living in the boonies and the pharmacist doesn’t like the color of your skin or your religious dress and decides you’re not allowed to shop there.
You’re moving the goalpost. I can choose not to do business with Trump because I don’t appreciate his business practices. I cannot chose not to do business with him because he’s white. You do understand the difference don’t you?
Oh, I am, but that’s not actually the argument being made. Folks are saying that you should have to serve everyone, no matter what.
But even in the specific cases of protected classes, I question the effectiveness of the state imposing such things.
Nesrie talks about the hard core racists that she freaks with on a routine basis… But I question whether one would want to go to say, a restaurant, if the owner openly hated you… Even if he were legally required to serve you.
Finally, regarding protected classes, the SCOTUS has not ruled on whether sexual orientation is a protected class. If it did no, like in something like Hively v Ivy, then it would clearly define it… but trying to remove all rights to decide who we do business with, outside of protected classes, is a mistake.
That’s not the argument being made at all and you know it.
If a business is open to the public, it’s open to the public, full stop. As long as a customer is following reasonable behavioral norms as most people define them (shirt, shoes etc.) and their money is green, then no, it’s not the businesses’ right to discriminate. We figured all that out 50 years ago in the US.
If you are ONLY saying that you want to prohibit refusing business need on a member of a protected class, that’s more reasonable, but there is a chance that isn’t going to include sexual orientation.
And again, I question the effectiveness of trying to force people to do business with you.
No man, that isn’t how it works.
Say you are a total dick, and I hate you on a personal level. Maybe you bullied me in high school, whatever. I am ABSOLUTELY allowed to refuse to serve you. I do not have to do business with you. Because of course I don’t. Part of business is choosing who you work with.
Now, as ReptileHouse points out, we have specific classifications of people that I can’t be discrimination on, but I definitely do not have to serve every person who walks in the door.
Pretty sure what we’re saying is that it should. And what I also am saying is that there shouldn’t be any chance about it.
I can agree with that, but I still think it’s less impactful than boycotting the business.
I think you don’t know what you’re talking about, and it’s pretty easy to say something like that when you’re not the one not being served.
I realize that you do not think my opinion as a white guy counts. I’m ok with that.
I do think less of you as a result though.
I think you overestimate the average person. By a lot.