SCOTUS under Trump

[Telefrog]

Republicans love to ignore that.

As above. They don’t ignore it. Her record on women and children is a feature of their stance against her. Those issues are positioned as part of the liberal evil.

[KevinC]

supporting women and children is actually a BAD thing.

#NotMyResponsibility

[Timex]

[Neal_Stevens]

Asked and answered in one post. :)

-Tom

Attaboy, Tom, you still got it :)

So when you say she is “every bit as bad” as Trump, you reveal a staggering amount of ignorance about the political process and the men and women who participate in it. I had hoped you would be able to articulate some rational reason for supporting Trump, but all you’ve got is the nonsense you’ve been sold from the right wing demonizing the Clintons. In lieu of political principles, you have shibboleths like email servers, Banghazi hearings, and child sex slavery in the basement of the Comet Pizza. That’s no way to go through life, son.

Oh boy, revisiting the thread, I missed this. Tom, when you use words like “shibboleths”, you lose me–that totally smacks of pretentious intellectual arrogance. You know I don’t have any idea what that means.

ALSO: when you call me “son”, you’re doing it wrong. I’m 7 years your senior. I was sexually assaulting high school girls when you were still getting Mama to help you open your Jello Pudding packs.

In this instance, though, Neal brought her up. The right is so accustomed to opposition, and so poorly equipped for governance, that they need to keep bringing up Hillary Clinton. From “lock her up” at the rallies to Neal’s whatabbouttism justification when asked how he can support Trump. For many Trump supporters, the demonization they’ve been fed of the Clintons is all they have to go on.

@Neal_Stevens, if you have any reason to support Trump other than your hatred of Hillary Clinton and your assertion that Dr. Ford is a liar, I’d love to hear it.

God, if I had a nickle every time you uttered “whataboutism”.

“In lieu of political principles” Conservatives have political principles, you know that. You may not agree with them, I’m sure liberals here would be happy to argue against them, but don’t pretend we don’t have them. Enforcing the rule of law, personal accountability, liberty, legal immigration, equal rights under the law, a military that will serve as a deterrence, minimal government taxation and interference. At least, acknowledge my principles.

My dislike of Hillary and her pandering, socialist policies and finding Trump too distasteful and cartoonish is why my vote was a right in (oops, I meant write in). I laughed to think we ended up with a reality TV host as President. It was real Twilight Zone to me. Like one friend put it, He is really good at saying what some people want to hear, he is not serious about the things he says he wants to do. However, after 2 years of heavy anti-Trump coverage by the news media, I’ve gotten the impression that the guy is actually trying to get the job done. I’m still waiting for the Wall, but his tax cuts have stimulated the economy, I’ve hired two additional drivers to keep up with business demands, and I am happy he is trying to bring jobs back to the US and pushing back against the Chinese and Europe. Hey, I know everyone will bash me and declare all I know is what Fox News tells me, but actually, I read a wide range of news sources, and I get most of the links from Google News every morning when I update the Subsim World Naval News. So no, I don’t rely on a steady diet of right wing news.

Tom, I do not know for certain Dr. Ford is a liar, I don’t think there’s any way to determine the truth of what she says happened. But she did not appear credible to me, and not because I was just dying for Kavennaugh to be confirmed. I could be just as happy moving to another candidate. Dr. Ford (to me) really overdid it with he brittle, damaged act. I mean, if what happened was just as she described, that was awful, but my god, that was 36 years ago. I got in a fight in 1980 and broke two knuckles, I’m not still freaked out over it. And it was no secret at that time either.

If someone had a time machine and we could go back and peek through the window, and see the event as she described it, I would help you run that son of a bitch out of town. I don’t know what happened or did not happen to Ford, but to pop it our at the last minute of a contentious Supreme Court hearing, with all the women gnashing their teeth screaming “Believe her!” Too much drama, not enough evidence.

Sometimes, the answer to the question is stuff like “he’s a buffoon, but I want a certain kind of Supreme Court*” or “he’s crass, but I want tax cuts” or “okay, he says some things that bother me, but I want a stronger military”. Those sort of make sense, but they’re short sighted to the point of being immoral. The price those people are paying for their one issue can’t be worth the cost of destroying so many American institutions and compromising so many of our values.

Well, one thing I agree with you on, Trump has busted the kind of decorum I’ve been used to in politics. That’s kind of sad, and even though I was not an Obama supporter, the guy had some class. And I’ll always love him for taking out Osama Bin Laden with SpecOps, and not missiles. He’s crass, but --I want tax cuts-- hell, he’s already got the job, it’s a little late to do anything about that, so if Trumpy will end illegal immigration, get our economy on good footing, and stick with policies that curb the trend of able-bodied people from relying on welfare, I guess I’ll give him a chance.

I’m confused you’d think so. Haven’t we seen his trade war already impact American workers negatively, and that the tax plan is predominantly for the rich + corporations, not the average worker? Beyond lip service, the average worker has not benefitted beyond high employment rates, which were already the case when Obama left office.

I don’t know. Has the trade war really been bad for the average American worker? I know CNN and WashPost are sounding that note, but … I’m not so sure. Maybe it’s a case of I hear what I want to believe. I hope not. And the tax cut sure helped me, immediately. I consider myself an average worker, and when I say worker, friend, I mean outside most of the day in a chemical plant, in the Texas summer sun, with long sleeve fire retardant clothes, monogoogles, and heavy boots. Climbing on trucks, pushing packs of cylinders. I’m not a lawyer or a banker. When I get a paycheck and the government has allowed me to keep an additional $200 of my money, I’m happy. Feel free to increase your charitable donations to make up for it, if you wish.

Remember when Trump was saying under his policies the USA GDP would be 5%. It was 4.2% last quarter, right? That was pretty impressive. Obama has the bad luck to inherit a recession as he took office, and unemployment was pretty bad. But corporate profits did ok, and yeah, at the end of his term, employment was surging. So, what policies of his were responsible for that? (Assuming that any policies any president enacts have an impact on the economy).

Well, you have to remember that to Republicans, supporting women and children is actually a BAD thing.

That’s not true. Why say stuff like that?

[Telefrog]

I mean, if what happened was just as she described, that was awful, but my god, that was 36 years ago. I got in a fight in 1980 and broke two knuckles, I’m not still freaked out over it. And it was no secret at that time either.

“Get over it, Princess. Man up and stop picking at it.”

[tomchick]

ALSO: when you call me “son”, you’re doing it wrong. I’m 7 years your senior.

It’s a movie quote. Does quoting Animal House smack of pretentious intellectual arrogance?

God, if I had a nickle every time you uttered “whataboutism”.

Why do you think you hear it so often?

Well, one thing I agree with you on, Trump has busted the kind of decorum I’ve been used to in politics.

It’s telling that I talk about “institutions” and “values”, and you reduce it to “decorum”.

I appreciate that you’re posting, and especially how good natured you’re being about it, but you’re not doing your arguments any favors with by-the-numbers talking points that you can’t back up.

-Tom

[Timex]

Remember when Trump was saying under his policies the USA GDP would be 5%. It was 4.2% last quarter, right? That was pretty impressive.

You realize that quarterly GDP growth is totally different than annual GDP growth, right?

I mean, it was 5.1% the second quarter of '14, then 4.9% in the third quarter. It was 4.7% in the fourth quarter of 2011.

When you look at all the trend lines for essentially every economic indicator, you see pretty straight lines going up from the great recession.

The tax cut didn’t do this. It wasn’t directed at people who would effect anything. The vast majority went to the extremely wealthy. Middle class folks received extremely small cuts to their taxes, and those are going to expire. And in return, it’s exploding our debt.

That’s not conservatism. That’s just irresponsibility, and a paycheck for the ultra wealthy donor class.

I thought we were supposed to care about debt. Wasn’t that a thing?

[scottagibson]

You realize that quarterly GDP growth is totally different than annual GDP growth, right?

Narrator: No, he did not realize that.

[Rod_Humble]

Firstly may I say I appreciate the way you phrased your views. I wont respond to your points as I think they contain your justifications within them.

May I ask what your views are on climate change?

I say that because I am rapidly becoming a single issue voter. Which I think makes sense, if we don’t have a habitable planet then we all die. Does climate change fit into your views about Trump in anyway, good or bad? Just curious because you are clearly a smart man and I wonder how you balance that?

Thanks for any answer!

[Nesrie]

I got in a fight in 1980 and broke two knuckles, I’m not still freaked out over it. And it was no secret at that time either.

You’ve got to know that getting into a fist fight and trying to rape someone isn’t on the same branch, right? We’re talking about attempted rape, not some argument that turned physical.

[RothdaTheTruculent]

really overdid it with he brittle, damaged act.

Yeah, I was not impressed at all with the crying, the hysterics, the sudden eruptions of anger and vindictiveness and magical thinking . Brett was far too emotional and unbalanced to pass any half-way sane job interview.

[Papageno]

I see what you did there, and approve. EVEN IF Kavanaugh was in fact the choirboy back then that he portrayed himself to be, his performance during that testimony on the 27th (clearly meant to appeal to His Trumpiness and the Trumppalos in the audience) was disqualifyingly partisan for a (then prospective) SC Justice, not to mention his complete lack of class/respect to Senator Klobuchar and his inability to keep it together. Plus all the obvious lying.

[Nezz]

You’ve got to know that getting into a fist fight and trying to rape someone isn’t on the same branch, right? We’re talking about attempted rape, not some argument that turned physical.

What we call trauma is above all a reaction to expectations, both personal and social. We obsess over certain kinds of experiences because we think that we should, not because these events have any intrinsic or objective quality. So it’s not hard to imagine someone being more affected by an argument that results in a “loss of face” than by sexual assaults, if his surroundings value honor highly and sexuality little.

There were also some fascinating studies showing that war only started traumatizing soldiers once society became convinced that war is traumatizing.

[Fifth_Fret]

ALSO: when you call me “son”, you’re doing it wrong. I’m 7 years your senior. I was sexually assaulting high school girls when you were still getting Mama to help you open your Jello Pudding packs.

Are you ill? What is wrong with you that you’d wade into this thread with crass humour like that?

[scottagibson]

Too much drama, not enough evidence.

Hey, that reminds me. How about answering these questions?

…give some examples of the evidence that would convince you that Kavanaugh has a history of assaulting women while drunk. Describe the process necessary to produce that evidence. Contrast that necessary process with the one we actually got. For extra credit, point to an actual claim of sexual assault you believe was factual, and describe the evidence of that claim you saw that convinced you.

[MikeJ]

Wasn’t the answer magically looking through the bedroom window 30 years ago and seeing it happen?

[MikeJ]

We obsess over certain kinds of experiences because we think that we should, not because these events have any intrinsic or objective quality.

I think social expectations can increase or decrease our response to certain trauma, but in the case of rape or attempted rape I think the intrinsic factor is pretty strong. I try to think back to my response to that terrible scene in Deliverance when I first saw it.

[Soapyfrog]

Ford thought she might be killed, that’s fairly traumatic even without the attempted rape.

I don’t think you can equate a fist fight to that experience.

[magnet]

I got in a fight in 1980 and broke two knuckles

Would you rather have been raped?

[Menzo]

I got in a fight in 1980 and broke two knuckles, I’m not still freaked out over it.

Guys, I, too, understand what it’s like to be raped. One time in 2002 I got into a VERY heated argument on the Lord of the Rings fan messageboard about whether balrog have wings or not. I mean there was no physical penetration, but I really felt like I was mentally raped so I understand what it’s really like.

P.S. - Neal_Stevens, you’re an asshole for even thinking what you wrote. I have a feeling you don’t care, though, because pretty much everything you write comes off as from a self-obsessed jerk.