4448

Civil forfeiture laws vary by state. In some states, civil forfeiture can only occur after conviction.

This case was about civil forfeiture, but not about its timing. It was about whether civil forfeiture by states is limited by the Eighth Amendment. Specifically, whether taking a $40,000 car for a (relatively) minor crime should be banned as an “excessive fine.”

Before the ruling, technically states were not completely bound by the Eighth Amendment. Now, they are.

Note that even outside civil forfeiture, states are allowed to take property from people who have not been convicted of a crime. For instance, when police issue parking tickets. Or when they tow cars. But now these penalties can no longer be “excessive”.

4449

Also important: Justice Ginsburg wrote the court opinion on the case.

Whew.

4450

Please please please let that Grande Dame last a couple more years, at least.

4451

See, this kind of thing I think is dumb. All this does is piss off a ton of people.

The monument is a memorial to WWI soldiers. The Christian symbology isn’t the point of the memorial, and is really just an artifact of when the memorial was made.

4452

Yeah, I agree. I don’t think the monument was erected to promote Christianity, and I don’t think it is maintained for that reason. It’s a dumb lawsuit.

4453

Yeah, I’m pretty against religion of any kind infiltrating the government but this doesn’t seem offensive, given the time period. Can you imagine if it was a WWI memorial with Muslim imagery though?

4454

Not even just the motives, but that they ignored and bypassed procedure mandated by law.

4455

There are lots of Muslim tombstones in the WWI cemeteries in France.

4456

I realize that I’m probably an outlier, but i really don’t see religious structures like this, from any religion, as being entirely religious.

For instance, one of the most horrific crimes committed by ISIS and the Taliban, to me, was when they destroyed a ton of religious artifacts, including giant Buddhas carved out of a mountainside.

While those things are implicitly religious, they are more than that. They have historical significance. Religion is part of human history, and it’s ignorant and misguided to try and erase it from our memory. That’s what bugs me about these groups like the humanist society.

4457

They are often works of stunning art. You don’t have to be a believer to grasp the beauty of Chartres or the Sultan Ahmed Mosque or Saint Paul’s.

4458

By golly, is it possible we all actually agree on something?

4459

Can’t they just break the arms of the t off and leave the rest of the monument standing? It’d just be a more boxular version of the Washignton monument.

4460

This just doesn’t seem like a good solution. I mean, it’s suggesting that the monument be effectively defaced in order to… What?

Like, what exactly is the benefit that such an action would achieve?

4461
  • It would create and sustain jobs for the people get tasked with that sort of thing.
  • It would help local progressives demonstrate an unwillingness to let their town go down the same path as those places that still embrace other potentially offensive symbols like the confederate flag after all these years.
  • It would help support the local papers, journalists, and freelance photographers.
  • It would upset right wing Facebook users who want to rage about the continued attacks on Christianity before their sponge baths.
  • It would help the locals repurpose the raw materials from the monument, so that maybe they could even make two or three more non-denominational mini-monuments someplace else.
  • It would bring people together, hand in hand, as they chain themselves to it and similar the monuments all across the country as a show of support for protecting their right to celebrate the crucifixion of Jesus.
  • It would give Christian book stores the ability to sell new armless crosses to those people who want to stay up to date on all the latest idolatry trends.
4462

TL;DR It would make kerzain LOL.

4463

I would also ROFL.

4464

LOL. That big stone cross is not “entirely religious”.

I mean, I don’t care that much about this ceremonial Christianity stuff, really, but gimme a break…it’s a big fucking cross. There’s no other purpose to the symbol of a cross than that Christian mythology says their Christ was nailed to it. It is an expressly Christian symbol.

I’m perfectly fine with letting it stand, cuz who gives a shit plus it gives the local Young Satanist grotto something to spray paint pentagrams on…but don’t insult my intelligence along the way.

4465

Do you believe that a giant statue of Buddha has more than simply religious significance?

4466

I mean… it’s also the default grave marker for half the planet.

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4467

As the biggest, most militant atheist in the forum, I will add this - eh. But I bet there’s a church across the street they could move it to. Because there’s always a church across the street.