Yeah that Hoover Institute guy who wrote that article needs to read some history

Even if Barret were not going to individually be extreme, by shifting the overall balance of the court to a 6-3 extreme, we are going to see terrible results. Honestly, people of good conscience are going to be surprised what the court gets up to over the next few years until/unless the court is reformed/rebalanced.

Some of the 19th and early 20th Century decisions are not just appalling but truly shocking in how far the Supreme Court let violent racists and exploitative business go.

Until they aren’t.

Not saying Barrett meets the criteria, but ā€œhistorically things have been this wayā€ means fucking nothing anymore.

I’d say Kavanaugh has already broken that pattern for the Supreme Court.

We’ll fondly remember when this was actually true.

It’s not any more.

Make no mistake: Amy Coney Barrett is being nominated specifically to overturn Roe v. Wade, the ACA, and save Trump’s ass if there’s any way to do so.

It doesn’t matter what she says during her hearings. Everyone’s smart enough now to know how to answer the inevitable questions about how she would rule on those issues.

But this is why she was picked. If there was any question that she wouldn’t rule in Trump’s favor, he would have picked someone else.

I have tremendous respect for your opinions especially legal one, so I’ll allow that I could be wrong here. But, by and large compared the destruction of Senate norms, pollicization of the Justice Dept, State, Intelligence, EPA and even CDC, and USDA. I still view the Supreme as the least impacted institution by the cancer of Trumpism.

Speaking of reblancing, I asked this question earlier. Can Congress demote Barret back to the appellate court? In an ideal world have her replaced by Merrick Garland. If so could just do that or would it have to be done as part of large reform effort?

No. They could impeach her, I guess, and then kick her back to a lower position or something, but that would be extra odd.

In a better world they could impeach Kavanaugh for lying to Congress or the like and then replace him with Garland, but even Garland was a compromise pick at the end of the day. He was picked specifically so the GOP couldn’t claim he was some left-wing nut. Then they treated him like he was anyway, so it didn’t matter.

I’ve been around long enough that I’ve heard the same arguments about Justice Roberts, and along with Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch. Yet, that Trump administration has the worse won-loss record of any administration. Despite having two nominees that everyone assured me would bring an end to civilization as we know it.

I know that Trump and his supporter think that Barret will vote to repeal Roe V Wade, and I wouldn’t be at all surprise if her opinion is the decisive vote on the edge case of abortion.

But as for repealing Roe v Wade conservative have a had 5-4 advantage on the SCOTUS for almost all of this century and Roe v Wade is still the law of the land.

If your hypothesis that Justice are purely political hacks now is true. Please explain why Trump loses so much at the Supreme Court?.

Trump’s dismal rate of success is all the more remarkable given the increasingly Republican complexion of the Supreme Court. President Barack Obama faced a majority of Republican appointees on the court, and so would naturally have faced a more hostile audience. Yet justices appointed by Republican presidents have voted in favor of the Trump administration to a lesser extent compared with the Obama administration (51 percent to 54 percent) and the George W. Bush administration (67 percent).

Trump would have us believe that he was treated unfairly not only by Republican-appointed justices but even by his own appointments. Justices Neil M. Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh have voted in favor of the Trump administration 39 percent and 57 percent of the time, respectively.

The reason was Roberts. He’s smart enough to know when to not push things too much and fire up the Dem base into courtstacking. If he loses control, the radicals are going to overreach, and the Court will get stacked.

At this point I think it’s going to be stacked no matter what if the Dems get to 51 in the Senate.

I’m sorry that’s BS nobody was taking about court stacking before RBG died. Roberts has the swing vote on the court for a decade long before Trump was on the scene. Please explain if Gorsuch is such political hack that voted against Trump 63% of the time?

  1. Because they are conservative hacks, not necessarily Trump sycophant hacks, and
  2. because conservatives don’t really want to overturn Roe v Wade; they want the issue, not the solution

On issues that matter to conservatives — e.g. money in politics, voting repression, etc — they are reliably on the conservative side of the issue and find ways to make the law fit the result they want.

Strollen, I think there are different spectra along which we can look at the Supreme Court Judges. One is ā€œpartisan hackeryā€ (and that IMO actually has two sub-spectra of ā€œTrump-hackeryā€ and ā€œGOP/wealthy donor-hackeryā€) versus ā€œconservative legal philosophyā€ (and there are sub-spectra of that as well).

Basically over the last couple of decades, despite an overall 5-4 GOP/Conservative majority, that majority has been often fragmented along these various sub-spectra lines and thus they don’t always get all 5 together to push the actual decision to the right. In a 5-4 court, a single dissent or a single sufficiently divergent concurrence, can prevent the Court from rendering a strongly GOP-oriented ruling. With a 6-3 majority, that calculus shifts and IMO that is going to cause substantially more reactionary opinions over the next few months/years.

As to why Trump has lost so much in court, there are 3 reasons. One is the lack of cohesion amongst the 5 conservatives on the Court as I have described. In addition, there has been a lot of incompetence by the Trump admin, especially in terms of the behavior of the administration setting up bad cases for their side. And also, the Trump admin has pushed some deeply one sided and extreme arguments that attempt to contradict or overturn decades (sometimes centuries) of precedent.

My big fears for the court going forward are not so much on the ā€œTrump casesā€ b/c many of those cases are quite weak. And I’m not actually as worried about the ACA as some, b/c honestly the lower court opinions in that case are crap.

What I’m worried about with Barrett are the following:

Abortion. The Court may or may not rapidly and explicitly overrule Roe v. Wade but that’s irrelevant IMO. There’s no question that with Barrett on the Court (and this is established by the precedent of Barrett’s actual decisions such as the ā€œfetal burialā€ case) the Court will allow restrictions on abortion such that states can, as a practical matter, take the right to choice away from their citizens.

Civil rights, minority rights, gay rights, trans rights, etc. There is fairly strong suggestive if not dispositive evidence in Barrett’s record that she endorses a view of ā€œreligious freedomā€ that includes at least some level of ā€œfreedom to discriminateā€ and just as with abortion there are a LOT of ways that states can enable suppression/removal of rights while still overtly ā€œallowingā€ the right to exist. An example of what I mean would be a decision that does not take away the right to gay marriage but does take away the ability of government to punish a county clerk who refuses to issue gay marriage licenses. Gay people would still have the ā€œrightā€ to marry but would be unable to actually effectuate that right in many jurisdictions. That’s just one example. I believe the Court with Barrett is going to do a LOT of harm in this area, more than most people expect or suspect. And, most of the harm will be subtle and indirect.

Also, in general Barrett is probably a vote for a more wealth/corporate focused economic jurisprudence although my sense of things is that her focus is more social than economic. You also get weird grey areas. For example one traditional conservative legal philosophy is to NOT extend too much deference to the government, but of course the GOP typically changes it tune when it is running the government. Trump in particular has exaggerated claims to deference to an absurd degree.

My biggest area of concern right now is voting rights / election law / throwing the election to Trump. And on that, I’ve been pretty bitterly disappointed, even in my cynicism, by the Roberts court. The Rucho gerrymandering case was just pure ass. I don’t really know for sure where Barrett is on these issues but it seems pretty likely she’s not in what I would consider a good place. The big question in my mind is will she be Roberts/Gorsuch level of bad on these issues (which is pretty bad IMO) or will she be Alito-bad on these issues (which is worse). And, there’s even worse out there IMO. If you want an example of a Judge I consider super dangerous on executive power/slavish obeisance to Trump type issues, look at Circuit Court Judge Neomi Rao. I’m hoping Barrett is not like Rao but I don’t know.

Thanks Sharpe, these are the kind of nuances that make sense to me, but obviously don’t fit on a bumper sticker.

I’m ok but with conservative states want to restrict late-term abortions or even require clinics to hand out information about adoption alternatives. What I’m not ok with is the back door restriction, that make abortion practically unavailable or not allow gay couples to marry. In short, I think the Supreme court has spoken and the spirit of Oberfell vs Hodge and Roe Vs Wade should be upheld throughout the land, but I’m enough of a federalist, that I’m ok with states making changes for the edge cases.

Voting rights restriction has clearly advanced from the fairly benign restrictions, of voter ID Crawford vs Marion, to the ridiculous stunts that Florida has pulled with requiring former (often POC) felons to pay restitutions, while simultaneously making it impossible for them to figure out how or how much to pay.
60 Minutes did a great segment on this.

I like check and balances so I’m simply not going to be as upset with a conservative Supreme court if the Democrats are in control for the next 8 years or so as the rest of you. I do find the hypocrisy from 2016 and 2020 to be obscene and so I support any effort by the Democrats to remedy it

I’m still trying to get a definitive answer about the idea of rotating justice from Supreme Court to the appellate court, which Mayor Pete talked about. What is allowed and what isn’t? (Assume no filibuster and Democrat control)

I’m far from an expert on this, but I believe Mayor Pete’s reforms all would require a constitutional amendment. If only America could do that anymore.

There is precedent for adjusting the size of SCOTUS, so that would make the most sense as part of judicial reform rather than more elaborate pitching rotations.

On the recurring ā€œcourt packingā€ question, I wish Biden would respond that the question should be directed to Trump and Mitch McConnell because the Republicans have already engaged in court packing by denying President Obama any hearing on his 2016 nominee and ramming through another nominee after voting has already started in the 2020 election. Public opinion appears to be on Biden’s side with the current hijinks, so talk about that.

Agreed. And along similar lines, why didn’t Biden explain why there were over a hundred federal judge openings when Trump took office? Argh.

Not blaming him, just wishing. I don’t know how I’d respond if a giant monkey was throwing its shit at me and screeching.

In any debate, you’re going to miss a few openings. I only watched snippets after the first 15 minutes, but Biden did the most important thing by persevering through the noise. His calm segments talking into the camera were very effective.

Of course if Republicans truly wanted to ensure Roe wasn’t overturned they’d nominate a judge who hasn’t gone on record stating that it was wrongly decided.

They just can’t help but create Frankenstein’s monster, and when it ravages the countryside they’ll gasp with surprise.

This is partly a byproduct of the legislative and executive branches not wanting to actually legislate a solution. Instead, they left it to the courts, and used Roe as a cudgel against the other side.

Republicans when I was a kid: ā€œActivist judges are the worst thing to ever happen.ā€
Republicans when I grew up: ā€œWe have no plans to do anything by legislation. The only solution to anything is activist judges changing things. All hail the Activist Judges, get as many in as you can!ā€

A lot of our problems now are due to Republicans in the 80s controlling most of the platforms and indoctrinating most of America. I remember Rush Limbaugh being very open about this happening and being gleeful at it.

Reading this, the idea that asking questions about Barrett’s membership in this group is beyond the pale strikes me as insane.

I get that it’s a minefield, but if she were a member of the Taliban there would certainly be some questions.