SCOTUS under Trump

[Timex]

@HumanTon

Saying that isn’t anti-Catholic: it’s pointing out that in 2020 most Americans do not support this “women should be always be subordinate to men” nonsense, and that it’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask why, when there are countless possible candidates, we should appoint someone who apparently does.

But does she actually believe such a thing, or is that merely a biased interpretation of her beliefs?

To me, given her degree of personal success, that suggests a level of ambition which is somewhat incompatible with the belief that women should be meek servants of their husbands.

[scottagibson]

@Timex

But does she actually believe such a thing, or is that merely a biased interpretation of her beliefs?

If only there were some way to determine what she thought of that idea. Some method of communication, involving interrogatives and responses.

[Dave_Perkins]

Alas!

[scottagibson]

We lack the wisdom for such a method!

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

If only there were some way to determine what she thought of that idea.

Like looking at evidence? Maybe her career in comparison to her husbands?

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

Like looking at evidence? Maybe her career in comparison to her husbands?

I doubt that looking at people’s careers is a reliable indicator of what they think is their proper spiritual relationship with their spouse. Also, just over 3 years ago she was a college teacher. As noted above, she’s only been an appeals court justice since Trump appointed her in 2017, and he appointed her despite her lack of experience because she ticked the ideology boxes.

Can she both believe women should be subservient to their husbands AND be a college teacher or a justice? Sure, why not?

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

I doubt that looking at people’s careers is a reliable indicator of what they think is their proper spiritual relationship with their spouse.

What does her spiritual relationship to anything have to do with her nomination? She has a pretty big spiritual relationship with the Pope, is he going to dictate her rulings?

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

What does her spiritual relationship to anything have to do with her nomination?

There is a whole thread up there ☝️ discussing that question.

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

There is a whole thread up there ☝️ discussing that question.

I’ve read it and it keeps being brought up. Was JFK under the Popes thumb? There is a pretty big spiritual and hierarchical relationship between Catholics and the Pope.

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

I’ve read it and it keeps being brought up. Was JFK under the Popes thumb? There is a pretty big spiritual and hierarchical relationship between Catholics and the Pope.

If you’ve read it, you know the question isn’t about whether she is Catholic. Biden is Catholic. Sotomayor is Catholic. The question is about her membership in People of Praise, and the nature of that organization, and how her membership in it might influence her judicial views. If we learned that she was a Branch Davidian, or a member of Heaven’s Gate, would you have questions?

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

If we learned that she was a Branch Davidian, or a member of Heaven’s Gate, would you have questions?

You mean if she was part of suicide cults that broke the law? How do you get there from her being part of PoP?

She clearly isn’t subservient in at least one aspect of her life, her career, the part of her life most relevant to her nomination.

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

She clearly isn’t subservient in at least one aspect of her life, her career, the part of her life most relevant to her nomination.

We disagree, I think her career and nomination say nothing about the question; and in any event, what matters is how she thinks other people ought to behave, and whether that view colors her view if the law.

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

what matters is how she thinks other people ought to behave

Why does that matter to a judge/justice? I think what matters is how she interprets the law.

I mean if she was running for an elected political position, I’d absolutely agree with you.

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

Why does that matter to a judge/justice? I think what matters is how she interprets the law.

She is on the record as believing that Roe v Wade was wrongly decided, and that because it is controversial that it may not be worthy of stare decisis, which means she might overturn it. This view is almost certainly grounded in her own view of moral right and wrong, which makes me think that what she believes about the proper behavior of others influences how she views the law. Indeed, protestations of neutrality aside, I think that everyone views the law through their own personal sense of right and wrong, and I don’t think it is particularly strange or controversial to say so.

Why do you want to have this conversation?

[RayRayK]

@scottagibson

Why do you want to have this conversation?

A conversation about a judge’s personal spiritual beliefs? I don’t and I didn’t start it. I want to engage in it because I think it is a horrendous way to view judges that helps further the politicization of the Judiciary.

@scottagibson

She is on the record as believing that Roe v Wade was wrongly decided, and that because it is controversial that it may not be worthy of stare decisis , which means she might overturn it.

She is on the record, in her personal capacity, not in her capacity as a Judge. At least that I am aware of.

@scottagibson

I think that everyone views the law through their own personal sense of right and wrong, and I don’t think it is particularly strange or controversial to say so.

I completely agree! And the best way to determine that is through their record as a judge.

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

I don’t and I didn’t start it.

Fair enough. Consider it ended.

[Alstein]

I don’t think attacking Catholics is good. Biden is Catholic. Attacking Barrett’s creepy un-Christian cult is fair game though.

[RayRayK]

@Alstein

Attacking Barrett’s creepy un-Christian cult is fair game though.

What’s un-Christian about PoP? It was founded after Vatican II and charismatic Catholic movements were celebrated by the Pope Francis, who is probably more aligned with the charismatic movement in Catholicism than any other modern Pope.

(can’t vouch for the source of this as I’m not steeped in Catholic media, but it appears to be a Jesuit publication)

Is Francis our first charismatic pope?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not Christian, I don’t understand a lot of the charismatic movements in Protestantism or Catholicism (or the whole concept of a holy spirit). But I’ve also seen my own religious traditions mocked and attacked and this all seems very familiar.

[scottagibson]

@RayRayK

What’s un-Christian about PoP?

Asked and answered, again, up there ☝️.

[RayRayK]

You guys already discussed the official recognition of charismatic Catholic groups and the Pope’s celebration of them? I apologize if I missed it. I would also bring up, in case the groups Christian and Catholic credentials need more bolstering:

Bishop Peter Smith is a member of the Brotherhood of the People of Praise, an association of priests connected to the group, founded with the support of the late Cardinal Francis George of Chicago. Smith was ordained a bishop on April 29, 2014.