Secret CIA source claims Russia rigged 2016 election

Ok, just making sure. Can’t possibly recall who has seen/said what in this thread.

Here’s an article on CA and some of the various tendrils for anyone that wants to start to get a sense of what this is all about.

I was very sad to see the Mooch go. He was both incredibly entertaining and also damaging to the Trump and Republican brands so it was a win-win.

A couple of things to notice.

  1. There is already a grand jury empanelled in Virginia for the Flynn investigation. This is a second one in DC for crimes which may have occurred there.

  2. A grand jury would not be necessary for just counter-intelligence investigation. This is for criminal investigation.

What’s interesting to me–and I’m not knowledgeable enough about the legal issues involved to know one way or another–is whether the New York’s AG, Eric Schneiderman, is developing a case with or around Mueller’s grand jury.

Schneiderman is likely on his own. He doesn’t have the information that Mueller does nor the jurisdiction.

Tillis sees 2020 coming- he’s trying to save himself by moving anti-Trump.

Grand Juries have a number of uses beyond indicting someone.

One of the biggest ones is getting a witness or potential future defendant in to do a deposition under oath. What happens is the prosecutors brings some guy in to testify in front of the Grand Jury. They get questioned without a judge there to hear objections (their defense lawyers are there though). This usually happens because the witness is there semi-voluntarily (though not always) and they are giving testimony as part of some vague “deal” or because they don’t realize how much the prosecution has on the real target of the case.

Anyway, when the case goes to trial, the prosecution can put the witness on the stand and if the guy says something different (they’ve changed their story or they take the 5th or whatever), then the prosecution can read the transcript of the Grand Jury testimony to the Petit (trial) Jury and say “both what I just read you and what you heard earlier are sworn testimonies… you the jury get to decide which one is true.”

This is especially useful when the prosecutors feel that the longer the case goes on, the more a potential witness may be influenced or threatened by the defendant, but also because memories fade over time.

Another use of Grand Juries is to get people to testify under oath to build a case on people further up the line. The prosecutors will bring in a low-level guy and question them in front of the Grand Jury. Because they are under oath, they are likely to provide evidence against their bosses or risk jail for perjury. This sworn testimony has a higher value than circumstantial or (some) collected evidence, so it is then used to subpoena a guy higher on the ladder and the process repeats itself.

I imagine that if Mueller is issuing subpoenas, it is probably for this second reason.

Their lawyer is also outside of the room, the witness has to request a break to consult with the lawyer. So the lawyer has less ability to preempt lines of questions. Generally the witness will read (or have read for them) a sworn statement that they prepared ahead of time in conjunction with an Assistant US Attorney and their lawyer. Then there will be question time.

Also the Jurors can ask questions directly of the witness. Sometimes this can bring out additional details, sometimes it just adds amazingly stupid questions.

It’s not uncommon to see a witness multiple times in a case where they will come back with a new statement where they apologize for lying and then tell something near the truth.

A Grand Jury which has some experience with the case will often know when the witness is in the process of perjuring themselves and play along to see where it goes. It can be hard to keep a straight face when you’ve seen the video evidence that the witness is unaware of.

Is a grand jury seated with normal US citizens, just like a petite jury? My extent of grand jury knowledge comes from when my father was head juror on the grand jury in a rural NC county for a year. They basically met occasionally to determine which (mostly drug) cases should be prosecuted.

For the espionage stuff, right. But Schneiderman does have jurisdiction over financial crimes committed in NY. And hey, what is one of the main things Mueller is staffing up on? Financial crime.

It’s almost as if Mueller knows the plug could be pulled at any minute, and has a plan B that involves handing cases that are also violations of NY law over to Schneiderman if/when the Federal pardons are handed out.

But it’s not bribery if you loudly say “here’s a contribution toward your next campaign. I’m sure you’ll consider supporting our position on issue X (wink wink nudge nudge).”

Yep, from the jurisdiction where the case is being prosecuted. For the grand jury that was just announced, that’s D.C. (the other grand jury is Virginia.)

D.C. is of course overwhelmingly Democratic.

AG Sessions takes a new title as head of the Department of Irony.

The Hill: DOJ warns the media could be targeted in crackdown on leaks

Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Friday announced a government-wide crackdown on leakers, which will include a review of the Justice Department’s policies on subpoenas for media outlets that publish sensitive information.

At a press conference with Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, Sessions announced that the Justice Department, FBI and government intelligence agencies will begin directing resources into the investigations of government leaks and would prioritize prosecuting those that pass sensitive information along to the press.

Sessions said he had empowered Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and incoming FBI Director Christopher Wray to oversee the classified leaks investigations and to monitor the progress of each case.

The national security division of the Justice Department will prioritize cases involving unauthorized disclosures, Sessions said, and the departments “will not hesitate to bring lawful and appropriate criminal charges against those who abuse the public trust.”

And… the leakers will just start going to foreign media outlets, like The Guardian (that is foreign, right?).

The Nixon administration said exactly the same thing. Just before everything fell apart.

Just as long as SOMEONE in the chain of this understands that leaking “sensitive” information isn’t inherently illegal and neither is publishing it, whatevs. Unfortunately, we just happen to have an administration that seems to believe the law only exists to benefit themselves.

crosspost to movies forum?


Leaking sensitive information isn’t illegal (a fireable offense certainly) However, leaking classified material is against the law.

I assume (although I don’t know for sure) that transcripts of Trumps talks with leaders would be classified, but something like McMaster chewing somebody out in the West Wing wouldn’t be. Anyone know for sure?

They have to be marked as classified, AFAIK. They typically are.