Secret CIA source claims Russia rigged 2016 election


#12767

Not sure why you guys are letting this guy drag you into a pedantic argument about one of an infinite set of examples of trump sucking putin’s dick.

I mean, hell, Trump sucked his dick on stage in front of the entire world. Everyone knows Putin owns Trump.


#12768

Hey everybody! Gman is back!


#12769

Don’t engage with that fucking trash.


#12770

He has been rhetorically easy on Putin but hard policy-wise. It is a contradiction. Arming Ukraine, opposing pipeline in germany, pulling out of nuke accord, new sanctions, etc. While also verbally equivocating on his involvement in acts of individual aggression.


#12771

Are you entirely sure you know to whom you’re speaking?

I think you’re flailing a bit here. I never said ‘Trump guts platform’. It was a platform drafting committee, which means they were drafting a platform, which means there was no platform to gut. An amendment to the draft was offered which was tougher on Russia, and Trump killed that amendment and replaced it with one that was softer on Russia. The result was a weaker on Russia draft that became a weaker on Russia platform. Isn’t that what your own source says?


#12772

The guy is obviously a Whig. Doesn’t he know his party died 150 years ago? :}


#12773

Sorry responded to wrong person. Yeah again the facts we all agree on except one. The Washington post piece said the platform gutted the GOP stance on Russia, but it did not explain or cite a source for its claim that trump’s reaction was at odds with most republicans in D.C. I assume that is why it was an opinion piece and not a news article. But that’s a big claim. Trump’s decision to not give lethal arms to Ukraine was just a continuation of US policy. It may also have been a continuation of the platform as it was! And sources indicate it was just that. When you mischaracterize that, it looks a lot worse than it was. It looks like a ‘smoking gun.’


#12774

No, we do not yet seem to agree on the facts. Did Trump or did he not kill a tougher amendment and replace it with a weaker one? If so, why can’t he be said to have weakened the final platform position?


#12775

Because he kept some of her language from the amendment, and the amendment was never part of the platform. A vote to add it failed.

Note your own logic is kind of faulty. How can you ‘amend’ something being drafted if there’s no platform and it’s just a drafting committee with nothing to go on? What happens is the party comes into the convention with a platform that needs to be approved/modified. The modification failed here. It was never part of the platform draft to arm Ukraine with lethal weapons as far as anyone knows. No source says it was part of the platform going in, and York cited sources saying it was not in there.

Platform seemingly got tougher on Russia compared to how it began the convention. But yeah the final platform was weaker than it would have been if amendment was added.

I love that the “smoking gun” that Trump is a secret Russian agent, distilled, is really just that Trump was publicly opposed to escalating tensions with Russia and wanted to maintain Obama’s policy with Ukraine. (And he ended up arming Ukraine anyways).


#12776

You are full of shit. This isn’t remotely true.
Stop lying.


#12777

Yep, there’s no shortage of examples. Which is why the Trump brigades are now changing their arguments from “There’s no evidence Trump sucks Putin’s dick” to “That so-called evidence of dick-sucking you keep citing was conclusively proven false months ago. You just haven’t caught up. What you think you saw doesn’t mean what you think it means!”

It’s worth calling out this pivot, since it aims to give the impression that there are new important facts that call Trump’s Putin-worship into question when instead it’s just based on vague claims made by shadowy unnamed sources in Washington Examiner editorials.

… sadly, records of the Before Times were lost during The Great Upheaval. So now it’s impossible for us to know how other Republican candidates and congressional leaders felt about arming the Ukraine before Trump.

Oh wait, it actually takes like two minutes on Google. Pre-eminent 2015 Republicans in favor of supplying the Ukraine with lethal aid: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Lindsay Graham, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, John Kaisich, Bobby Jindal, and Carly Fiorina (and also John McCain, but he’s not mentioned in the article because he wasn’t running.)

Against: Trump, Rand Paul, Mike Huckabee.

Unclear: Chris Christie, George Pataki. (And Ben Carson is listed as “confused.”)

So that’s why the Post editorial didn’t spend a bunch of time explaining why Denman put forth the amendments, or why other Republicans at the convention were annoyed when Trump’s team shot them down. It was already known that support for arming the Ukraine was the position of most GOP candidates in 2016, and that Trump and Paul were the odd men out.

A continuation of Obama’s policy. (And specifically Obama’s - Hillary was calling for more military aid in 2015, per the linked article.)

If any more evidence were needed to show Trump’s soft spot for Putin, it would be that the one and only policy of Obama’s that Obama-loathing Trump didn’t initially try to wipe out was one going easy on Russia.

(Eventually in 2017 Congress forced Trump to sign on to lethal aid to the Ukraine. By then, of course, all of this had been laid bare and everyone was carefully scruitinizing both Trump and Congress for signs of going easy on Putin.)


#12778

As always.


#12779

I’m waiting for this argument “well he was only going to give Putin the Penthouse apartment, generally you have to give Putin oligarchs two whole floors before he’ll let you build something. See how tough Trump is on Putin”.


#12780

Amid intense scrutiny of contacts between Donald Trump’s inner circle and representatives of Vladimir Putin, Ivanka Trump’s name has barely come up. But during the campaign, she connected her father’s personal lawyer with a Russian athlete who offered to introduce Donald Trump to Putin to facilitate a 100-story Trump tower in Moscow, according to emails reviewed by BuzzFeed News and four sources with knowledge of the matter.


#12781

I can only imagine the twitter shit storm, if there is a criminal investigation targeting Ivanka.


#12782

Sure he’ll say he hardly knows her and she was never part of the campaign.


#12783

I apologize for coming off a little harsh. My initial unkind post was flagged and hidden by the community, and I’ve taken such reaction to heart.

Welcome to Qt3, and welcome to P&R. Some of our best people and discussions are made here, and I look forward to embracing you and yours.

Please forgive me for my initial reactionary gate-keeping. It’s negative attitudes like mine which stifle reasonably diametric ideas and vicissitude.


#12784

How many welcomes does he get, anyway?


#12785

It’s disheartening to think that Kerzain’s post was flagged, but none of Gman’s Nazi bullshit was.

Well, except by me.


#12786

I was pleased to see his bullshit being called out quickly and without beating around the civility bush. Thanks for not tolerating bullshit kerzain :)