Sega Dreamcast

Games
1

ok, here’s the deal: i love coming to these forums b/c they are filled with industry insiders and industry writers. the background info, the rumor, innuendo and gory details of the gaming scene included in these forumes are well worth the reading. well, there is some very good humor in here too!

so i am pretty new to the gaming scene. i started PC gaming again about 3 years ago; prior to that my PC gaming was done on an Atari 800 or the very first generation of IBM PC - right, like 20 years ago when i was 13. my last console prior to last year’s purchase of an Xbox was the old grey NES box. right - like 12 years ago.

so yesterday i bought a Dreamcast. i realized i need some “gaming perspective” and need to play at least 1 generation of older games so i can relate news ones to their history. i also bought Shenmue b/c i read that it was groundbreaking and very good and i am excited about Shenmue II coming out on the Xbox. i am essentially ghetto gaming.

so here’s my question: what killed the Sega Dreamcast?

see - i understand the whole Sega killing 3DFX deal, but did that also help kill the Dreamcast? b/c looking at the games on the DC, they look really good and i keep talking to people who love the Dreamcast. so why did it fail?

would love to hear some feedback. thanks!

2

Dave, that’s your cue. :wink:

My impression, mostly based on trying to talk people into buying one, was that they were waiting for the PS2 instead. Sony pre-announced the PS2 so early, it killed a lot of DC sales. Everyone that I actually got to play some DC stuff wanted to get one, but even then it was just as a placeholder until the PS2 was out.

3

Sega has made some bad decisions with choosing marketing agencies.

Both the Saturn and DC campaigns sucked.

4

No you’re not, the Dreamcast fits in with the current console linuep much better than it does with the last. If you want to play a previous generation, buy an N64 or a PSOne.

5

PSOne freaking rocked. 98 games and counting! I love playing PSOne.

6

I’m sure there are other factors involved, but my understanding is that the Dreamcast died because Sega didn’t have deep enough pockets. Most consoles take a loss on hardware and make up the money on software sales over the life of the console (5-7 years). Nintendo is the exception, since they try as hard as possible to break even on the hardware end.

  • Alan
7

Also it was apparently insanely simple to copy games and play copied games. I actually had people calling me ‘insane’ for buying games for my DC. The place where I worked at the time, 100% of the other guys in the office had MAYBE 2 real games between them, all of them pirated like crazy.

Not why I left but I’m glad I’m somewhere else now.

8

Also lets not forget the Sega Saturn. I think that system hurt Sega’s name quite a lot and reduced consumer confidence. It just wasn’t a very well supported system, didn’t do 3d very well, had that crazy “orchestra” of processors that nobody could figure out to program very well, etc. Still I thought saturn had some great games (panzer dragoon!!!). I bought the system on day one for $399. Then again I’m not most people.

Maybe the down hill slide began earlier with sega cd and 32x.

9

I don’t have time for a lengthy reply right now, but expect one tonight. 8)

It’s a combination of a lot of factors I think that put the Dreamcast to bed early. Piracy, PS2, perspective, confusion, marketing, support… it all adds up. Common misconceptions though are that the games didn’t sell and that’s patently untrue. The system had the best attach ratio in the history of consoles. Games were sold at an 8 to 1 ratio over the life of the system if I remember correctly. Peter Moore at Sega was very proud of that…probably still is.

–Dave

10

No you’re not, the Dreamcast fits in with the current console linuep much better than it does with the last. If you want to play a previous generation, buy an N64 or a PSOne.[/quote]

i don’t want to mislead anyone in how i think of this console: when i said “ghetto” i meant to impy the idea that i bought the console for $40 used. Gamestop must have a billion or so of these on their shelves. the game Shenmue was $13 used. so i am sitting here ready to play (with a $8 rumble pack and a $8 VMU) for around $75. compare that with the $200 a PS2 or Xbox will cost and this is essentially the low cost gamers console now. nothing wrong with that b/c my 2nd point is…

wow - the games i have seen look fantastic. i’ll grant that the Xbox and PS2 games look better, but not enough to cause me to want to spend 3 times the money to play them.

of course, it is an old console, but it seems like a good one. i am very happy to have it and try learning a little recent console history.

11

If I had to recommend a single console to someone that wanted to try out console gaming I’d go with a Dreamcast, easily. My favorite console, right now, is the PS2 but that mainly has to do with very specific titles that cater to my tastes - two really (RoTK VII and GTA3). Outside of those, there’s very little on any console that matches the variety and quality you’ll get with The Dreamcast (assuming you can find the titles and accessories you want). Many of those older titles were rereleased for other platforms more recently. I just saw a scathing review just this, or last, month of a ported Test Drive Le Mans for the PC - and by all accounts the original Dreamcast version remains one of the kings of racing games. Even ‘much anticipated sequels’ on various consoles are sequels of games originally made classic on the Dreamcast. Sequels, it should be remembered, aren’t always as good as the original. Will Soul Calibur 2 (PS2) really be as finely balanced and rich with content as the original on the Dreamcast? Who knows?

You may not be able to play DVDs but you’ll be able to hook up four players to the box, if you want, and there’s a built in dial-up modem (though I’m not sure what one would use it for these days - is Seganet still up?)

Anyhow, good choice. I’m sure there are plenty of folks who can offer advice and help on the DC around here. Most of us, I suspect, own one.

12

BTW, if you can find it, and like fighting games AT ALL, pick up Soul Calibur. It may be hard to find/expensive, but it’s definitely worth it. Best fighter ever, IMHO.

Oh, and you can also usually find Jet Grind Radio and the Virtua Tennis games for like $5 used…highly recommended also.

13

yeah, i compiled a list of games i want to play today by going to game rankings and profiling the ones who rank with 70% and above. definitely plan to get Soul Caliber since it is the highest ranked on that site.

i am also pretty stoked to try:

  1. GTA II (a historical perspective for me on how III came about)
  2. Street Fighter III (b/c i love SFII on the GBA)
  3. Dead or Alive 2 (thus showing me something prior to my knowledge of 3)
  4. Marvel vs Capcom 2(looked good at Gamestop, where the guys working there were playing it…while ignoring the PS2s, GCs, and Xboxes all around them)
  5. MDK2 (looks interesting)
  6. Rival Schools (my friends named their band after the game www.rivalschools.com)
  7. Skies of Arcadia (91% rating for a console RPG…woot!)
  8. Resident Evil Code: Veronica (heard a lot about it, never even seen it.)

…plus a few more (Virtua Tennis made it b/c of Shoot Club; Jet Set b/c i want to at least hear the Japanese gametrack.)

it sucks b/c now i am sharing my BF1942 time with the Dreamcast :shock:

  • flipside -

it’s nice though b/c used games are like $8-15 each…can get a few for what i paid for Dead To Rights. :D

14

Shenmue is crap.

15

MDK2, yes yes yes! Also, for my money I’d take Street Fighter Alpha Zero III or whatever it was over the regular “Street Fighter III”. Tony Hawk 2 is worth getting if you don’t have another system for the franchise. If you’re getting into fighters enough to be getting Rival Schools you should try to find–CRAP 2:00 AM BRAIN IS FAILING. Can’t remember the name. 3D robot fighting game…hmmm. I’ll post when I remember in the morning. Also good are the Powerstones, Powerstone 1 for a fun clever fighting game for two people, Powerstone 2 for all out madness if you’ve got four people to play.

16

Was “Tech Romancer” the title you were trying to think of, Mr. Schmidt?

17

TECH ROMANCER! Only $9.95 at http://www.capcom.com

Looking back at my post, there’s not a lot to add really to all the reasons cited above for the DC’s “failure”, if you can call some 7-10 milliion worldwide a failure anyway. The system was strong out of the gate, selling as many units as Xbox and Gamecube in its first Holiday season. In fact, the Xbox mirrors the Dreamcast in every way except two… the games aren’t nearly as strong and Microsoft has a huge whopping pile of money.

If Sega could’ve stuck it out, they would have ended up very successful with Dreamcast. The system can clearly compete with current offerings. It would probably be selling for $99 now and it’d be a strong console. Unfortunately, Sega couldn’t afford to support hardware anymore. If they had continued, it likely would’ve ruined the company for good.

One of the best things to come out of the DC was the restrengthening of Sega’s software makers in the marketplace. Many of the big franchises on other consoles started on the DC as well as Saturn. Their developers are more well-respected than ever before and it’s likely that if they hadn’t had their own hardware to work with for the last 15 years, that wouldn’t be the case.

The worst thing is Sega will be reluctant to do things like Maracas controllers and other cool hardware add-ons because they no longer own the hardware. A lot of the best things about Dreamcast weren’t picked up on by other hardware makers. The VMU is still the greatest innovation in sports gaming (particularly football), in the last ten years. But now we’re back to square one again with plays being called onscreen. The DC’s triggers on the controllers for driving are another great innovation that actually started from the Saturn’s 3D control pad.

The single greatest enemy of Sega in the Dreamcast era was Playstation 2 hype. Go back and read news stories from the time. It’s ridiculous how blown out of proportion the PS2 was by the mainstream media. Even the gaming media was completely taken. Next Generation claimed the PS2 was 10x more powerful than the DC. They also derided Sega’s system at every turn. One guy I talked to that was part of a major magazine at the time said “The DC is dead, and the kiddies don’t even know yet.” This was how this entire magazine perceived the Dreamcast… in February of 2000. That’s six months after launch. With this kind of prevailing attitude at the time (and it was all that way due to the PS2 hype), there was only a slim chance Sega could survive with the system given their financial hardship. The print mags of the time all reflected this attitude. Like Sega Saturn, the Dreamcast was getting backhand praise throughout the first year and that eventually led to the usual gamer apathy and then the launch of PS2 which given the lineup of games it launched with, should have been a failure. But the hype that preceeded the system sold it and Sony’s “shortages” only added to the perceived “need” to own one.

There were other things that contributed of course. Some gamers felt betrayed due to the Saturn being wound up early. Others bought a 32X and felt like that was a waste. Sega CD is even derided by many. However, when you look back at Sega’s history, every peripheral, including the 32X, has a few titles that were must own at the time and in the case of everything but 32X possibly, even today. There are classics on those Sega consoles and Saturn is a haven for them, really. Dreamcast is just the pinnacle of the misunderstood Sega system that’s loaded with classic games that will likely spawn sequels and franchises that last throughout Sega’s history. People are always asking for a sequel to Nights. The Panzer Dragoon sequel is largely due to overwhelming fan praise of the Saturn originals. Jet Grind Radio spawned Jet Set Radio Future…etc. Even better, Sega continues to create new franchises like Super Monkey Ball, Gungrave and revive even older ones like Shinobi.

So as far as the DC’s failure… I blame the PS2 hype mostly, Sega’s inability to reach the masses (marketing MIGHT be a problem, but no one’s ever proven that video game commercials are a huge influence on sales), the misunderstanding about its online capabilites, and a lack of respect for the system and its games. Of course, now there’s a growing sentiment among even those that poo pooed the system that it was Sega’s finest hour. To them I’d like to give a big FUCK YOU and ask where they were four years ago when it launched? It’s great to see people that missed it completely picking it up and enjoying it though. I own two DCs. One at the TV and one at my PC monitor. Which brings up another couple things that tick me off. The Xbox is basically a PC, yet it has no VGA support. Dreamcast had it. Xbox has online capabilities and did so right out of the box, yet they waited over a year to launch it? Sega waited a while to launch their online side too…but they were FIRST. Yet we constantly see uninformed articles about the consoles going online and that Xbox and PS2 are first. It’s the usualy twisting of history to support the “winners”. Sega/Nintendo had online play back with Xband on the SNES and Genesis and Sega had done game content over a wire with Sega Channel years ago.

That should be enough… there’s a lot to write about and some day I’d love to put together a book on Sega’s history. I think it’s fascinating how much they’ve innovated and yet been largely ignored by the public at large. Show a casual gamer something like Space Channel 5 and they’ll almost undoubtedly love it. Same with Jet Grind Radio… the list is very long. Then there’s the hardcore fighting games… the driving… and all the quirky games like Samba de Amigo. The list is long. Here’s what I own for anyone that’s interested…

When I input the scores, they hadn’t implemented the rating system right so it’s all even numbers. Probably rounded up in most cases…

http://users.ign.com/collection/davelong

I haven’t even considered trying to input my PC collection yet. That’s like four times the size of the DC collection or even more. Saturn games are missing too…

–Dave

18

Dear God, I’ve never seen so many overinflated scores in one place. I don’t think I own a single game I’d rate a 10, and very few I’d rate a 9.

IGN’s Dreamcast scores are criminal. Most of that mediocre drek wouldn’t snag a 5.0 if it were on any other platform. Don’t get me wrong, the DC has a few gems like Skies of Arcadia, Garou, and SF3:3S, but most of it is largely mediocre shovelware.

19

Tech Romancer is sooo damn awesome.

20

Yes, Tech Romancer!