Sega GT 2002

Games
1

Racing, like the football games, is another genre that I’m only just now “getting into”. I have fond memories of World Drivers Championship on the N64, but other than that no real experience with realistic driving games until recently. I never owned a PSX so I never played Gran Tourismo 1 or 2. When three came out, I was at least aware that it was something I should check out but I ended up watching so much of it played at my friend’s house that I had no desire to play the game myself when I bought his PS2 from him (with GT3) earlier this summer (It’s still on my shelf at home now, though in light of my recent interest I might grab it next time I’m at home).

What got me into racing games was the Xbox. Project Gotham is incredibly hard, but it was pretty and it was a launch title so I ended up with it. I was really impressed with the ways in which it broke from the traditional racing game structure with it’s kudos and style, but in the end I actually ended up selling the game when my learning curve hit a wall. It was enough though that I had the racing bug and so I happily threw down money for the next beautiful racer, Rallisport Challenge. Rallisport is the most beautiful racing game I’ve ever seen and the racing is a nice balance between arcade and sim. I’m proud to say I’m sticking with this one; I’m not done yet but I won’t be selling it back.

With this interest in racing games I finally made the move to a real sim with Sega GT 2002, and I’m enjoying it so far. It looks like the game has some pretty noticable shortcomings against Gran Tourismo but because of seeing so much of Tourismo I still don’t have as much desire to go back to that as I do to keep playing SegaGT.

Graphically SegaGT is inconsistent. Complaints with Project Gotham were that the courses looked a bit flat, but Sega GT actually looks /worse/ in that respect. The trees are the ugly intersecting sprite variety. On the other hand, the cars look gorgeous, better than Tourismo. The depth of field focus and blur effect is perfect and the glowing haze around reflections off chrome is quite pretty. To the gearheads, this doesn’t matter as well as how it plays though.

The track selection is the next big problem. It really doesn’t look like there are many courses at all. I think 12 is the number I’ve heard thrown around. That seems pretty weak on paper. I’m not tired of them from actually playing yet, but I’ve only got seven hours logged in it so we’ll have to wait and see how long I can stay interested in those same 12 courses.

The car selection also got some flak in some reviews. There are 125 cars I believe, and that’s more than enough for me. I heard complaints about the fact that out of those 125 cars, 7 (for example) are just variations of the Subaru WRX. It’s true, there are 7 WRX’s, but I don’t see how that’s a bad thing. I don’t think they decided from the outset that they would have exactly 125 cars and had to make a decision to drop other cars in favor of adding more WRX’s, I think that’s probably just the way things worked out from a licensing perspective.

My roommate’s turning out the lights on me now so I’ll be considerate and quit banging on the keyboard for tonight. I’ll get back with more tomorrow, which will basically be along the lines of “Gran Tourismo has more of everything, does everything to a slightly greater extent, but Sega GT isn’t any worse for it. Buy the game!” Goodnight for now.

2

I’m having a helluva good time with SegaGT 2002.

The graphics, I feel, are really quite great. The backgrounds are indeed sort of “flat” looking - moreso than Project Gotham and about as much at Gran Turismo 3. The cars themselves look fantastic. The lighting and reflections on them is just top-notch.

The soundtrack blows. This is the game that finally made me rip a bunch of songs from music CDs to my Xbox hard drive to make a driving mix. Which adds immesurably.

There are plenty of different cars. It’s a great selection. Porsche and Ferrari are notably missing, but that’s not uncommon. It’s only the need to statistically compare this game with GT3 that makes reviewers pan the car selection. In any other racing franchice like Need for Speed or Test Drive the car selection would be praised.

Yes, track selection is weak. I do sort of enjoy that I can actually get to “know” the tracks because there aren’t too many of them, but maybe four more tracks in the mix would be a good number. Their layout is superb: each one requires slightly different skills and strategy and plays very differently on the old sluggish cars vs. the new road-holding monsters.

I also quite enjoy that they really make you drive well. GT3, for all it was worth, boiled down to “just find that one race you can easily win, save up money, buy an overwhelming car, and pinball your way around the track.” You’ll get so little money doing that in SegaGT that it’s not a viable strategy. You have to drive “clean.” In fact, if you finish first and don’t take any damage at all, you get a “perfect” and your prize winnings go up by 50%!

It took me awhile to figure out how to earn some money, but once I got the Zero and modified it a bit I was unstoppable. Just today I saved up enough to buy the Ford GT concept car and fully modify it. I get just a HAIR over 9 seconds in the quarter-mile drag race and I cannot be beat in the official or event races. Hint: bolt-on turbo is always a better way to go than NA tuning (unless you’re making a car for NA-only events). And always sell a car you don’t want from your garage, not to the car dealer. You can double or even triple the price and sell it within a few days. If you’ve made a lot of mods to it or it’s a very rare car, jack up the price even further.

It took me quite a lot of sweat and tears to earn my “S” license. Damn that was hard. As well it should be, I guess. I think it’s the last license.

It’s got some annoyances, sure (can’t undo enough modifications, can’t see enough info about a car before buying), but Sega’s onto something great here. There’s supposed to be an “Append disc” sometime soon, which I’m anxious to hear more about. I hear the franchise is coming to Xbox Live as well. If there’s a SegaGT 2003, it has a really nice foundation to build upon. It’s a “very good” game that only needs some relatively minor changes to be “great.”

3

Have you gotten the nitro? It’ll help your quarter mile times :)

4

You know, I didn’t think I NEEDED the Nitro. But I just raced a drag tonight in my Ford GT (not the GT concept, the GT you have to win in the fifth season, or sixth, or whatever). I shot through at about 9.7 seconds, and LOST. That’s just rediculous.

My GT concept can do it in about .150 seconds faster, though.

I just got the SS license tonight, which lemme tell you, was a bitch. But now there’s just the one grand championship race left in the official races. I haven’t bought all the necessary types of cars to do all the special events, though, so I’m not quite “done” yet. :)

5

I just got the SS license last night, it was quite a chore. Took about an hour of retrying I think. That’s all still the first “season” though. Beat that final “World Championship” race and you’ll open up a whole new season of Official Races, while the Event Races seem to be the same (although of course harder). In the second season there are no more licenses to get and you can race any of the official races at any time except the final race for that season.

I absolutely tore up everyone in the drag races with the Super Seven. It FLIES off the line. It’s also what I used to beat the final race in the first season. It’s acceleration and handling are amazing, but I needed every last advantage to keep a Z06 off my tail. I could take him easily in the curves, but he’d come flying up behind me like I was standing still on the straight sections; it definitely gave me the most exciting race so far.

6

Okay, that second season is just BULLSHIT.

I beat the world championships on my first try with my Ford GT (not the GT concept, the other one - the one you win). That Corvette and some Impreza or something were right on my rear bumper the entire time, though. It was really close.

But I tried one race in season 2, just the first one on the first tier, and I got SMOKED. I mean, there were these two NSXs that just took off, and never looked back. They were half the track ahead of all the rest of us by the time the fifth lap rolled around. I was struggling for fourth place, barely ahead of the other three cars.

I tried drag racing, and my 9.5 second time isn’t fast enough. With my GT concept, my fastest drag racer, I managed to be just the first car. Again, some NSX was just blowing my doors off.

So I bought that NSX. Both the NSX-R and NSX-S. Totally souped it up, weight reduction, everything. FULLY LOADED. And I’m still losing! It’s like the computer is just cheating now. I’m being beat by cars that there is just no possible way I could modify them enough to go as fast as the computer is running them.

Is it possible that I missed earning an upgrade somewhere? I took first place in every single official race in season one. Not the license tests mind you - I’m not sure it’s humanly possible to get an “A” in those. There aren’t any upgrades offered after winning events, are there?

I tried out the Super Seven, buying every possible upgrade. I can’t break ten seconds in the drag strip with it (without Nitro - I’ve still never seen it even offered).

At this point, I’m not sure what to do. I can race a race REALLY well with my fastest car, and the fastest car I believe I can even make/buy/modify, and still not come close to first. Unless I can unlock some bitchin’ new upgrades just by placing third or better in like a whole tier of season 2…

7

Okay okay… I spent a little time on the gamefaqs.com forum (that’s such a useful site), and it turns out there are some more advanced car mods you can earn in the event races. Just not any of the events I’ve won so far (haven’t done a lot of 'em yet). So I guess tonight I’ll mess with a couple specialty cars and try to win some events.

I’m worried now, though. I may have unknowingly painted myself into a corner. Now that I’m in Season 2, the events may be too hard to win without those parts. And I can’t get the parts without winning 'em.

I don’t have a saved game back when I was an S-class racer, either. =(

8

I’m in the same boat but I didn’t get a chance to play around with it much yesterday; let me know how you do.

9

I’m “unstuck” and advancing happily through the official races of Season 2 now that I’ve got a GT90. I realized it’s the first place prize for the Battle of the 90’s Event Challenge. I went back to my garage to see what could compete in that one and found I’d won an Impreza somewhere along the way that was eligible. I gave it all the upgrades available (as of the end of Season 1) and was surprised to find I had no trouble competing the Battle of the 90’s and becoming the proud owner of a 729 hp monster (1050 hp fully modded). I still get dusted in the drag races (last time I checked) but the Official races are no sweat in the GT90. I just did about six of them; they don’t all unlock new things but some do. I’ve gotten better tires, suspension, and one more level of weight reduction available so far. I’ll keep doing the official races and unlocking things, and periodically checking my drag racing skills.

At this point there’s no reason to do the event races any more though. I’ve got more than enough money for upgrades and there aren’t any cars I need to buy at this point. If I do need some money, I can just run one of the official races on the oval track where I can consistently finish with zero damage for the cash bonus. It’s just a matter of time before I’ve knocked out all the official races and then I’ll just have my pride to satisfy in the drag race. Happy driving!

10

As for the nitrous, I’ve heard the way to get it is to lose repeatedly with the same car in the drag race and then it’ll become available in the used parts menu. I discovered the nitrous on my own by accident the very first time I checked out the used parts (I avoided them for the longest time having read in the reviews about their failures). At that point I didn’t realize it was a rare occurance, but thinking back I do seem to recall losing some drag races about that time so perhaps the theory is legit.

11

…and done!

The GT90 got me through most of the second season. On the fourth tier it started throwing GT40 concepts and Super Sevens at me that I couldn’t catch so I switched to the Jiotto Caspita I won sometime earlier tonight, modded it out, and blew the doors off everything through the championship.

I never got what I assume to be all the upgrades; no new mufflers, NA Turbos, or Turbines ever unlocked. Like I said, I never went back to the event races in the second season other than to pick up quick cash or prize cars so I think I still lose in the drag race. I think I’ll work on the Chronicle Mode some next, but the last few times I tried it gets really impossible on the late 90’s race. Good night!

12

Yeah, I un-stuck myself as well. (that doesn’t sound right)

Won the Rally B race and the 80’s race and got a couple upgrades. With those I could handle the rest of the events: I did the winding road, 70’s race (with my Zero…that race was SO EXCITING), 90’s race, and so on. Won all the stuff there is to win, including special prizes, from the event races. I LOVE IT when one of the $16,000 event races like the Sports Cup is the speed oval. I can take that easily, it only takes a minute, and it’s a cinch to do it with no damage and earn an extra 8,000 bucks. :)

I’ve only won a single Official Race in season 2, but now that I know that’s where you get the rest of the upgrades, I’m all over it. With a slightly better GT40 concept or my fully modded GT90, I should be able to take 1st (did you notice you don’t qualify on season 2 if you place 2nd or 3rd?).

Oddly enough, the regular Ford GT you win, the black one, is a better racer for me than the GT concept. It can only be tuned with NA and you can’t reduce the weight any more, and it’s got a lot less horsepower. But it also weighs like half as much, so while it’s not QUITE as fast, it’s really close and holds a turn better.

I still can’t win the drag races, though I’ve definitely determined that my GT Concept is my best car for it. I hear that turning off the Traction Control in the options makes a huge difference, so I’ll try that out.

I heard the way to get the Nitro is to lose a drag race on a day ending in a “5” and then check the used parts shop. If it’s not there, check the new parts and then go back and check used again. I haven’t tried this yet myself, but I will next time I play.

I didn’t expect to get so many hours of enjoyment out of SegaGT. Oddly enough, more than I did out of GT3. I can’t wait for the mythical “append disc” and the online version.

13

“I didn’t expect to get so many hours of enjoyment out of SegaGT. Oddly enough, more than I did out of GT3. I can’t wait for the mythical “append disc” and the online version.”

I actually may buy a Xbox for this game (and Summoner 2). Yeah, I’m weird. I’d buy an xbox to play a game that should have been made for pc. Also, is there any racing game on Xbox that resembles MSR for Dreamcast? I like how MSR had tons of different tracks (well the same areas, but cut up differently that is).

etc

14

Let me help you out from under your rock :)

Project Gotham. The game IS Metropolis Street Racer, only better. Same development team, same Kudos system, basically a direct upgrade to Xbox hardware only it’s not quite as punishing as the Kudos system in MSR. For example you no longer lose kudos for retrying a race or switching cars. It was a launch title, pretty much everything there is to say about it has already been said elsewhere. Suffice it to say, it’s MSR 2.

15

Ah, I’m out of the console loop since the Dreamcast died. Sounds cool. I’ll prolly get an xbox soon. Sega GT for DC wasnt too bad, though not as good as GTA1 and 2 for PSX… at least in customizablity… but i ramble…

etc

16

Let me help you out from under your rock :)

Project Gotham. The game IS Metropolis Street Racer, only better. Same development team, same Kudos system, basically a direct upgrade to Xbox hardware only it’s not quite as punishing as the Kudos system in MSR. For example you no longer lose kudos for retrying a race or switching cars. It was a launch title, pretty much everything there is to say about it has already been said elsewhere. Suffice it to say, it’s MSR 2.[/quote]

It definitely is MSR2 but in my experience you hit the wall a lot quicker in PGR. It took me 3 hours of play time to hit the wall where I couldn’t really advance whereas I was around stage 20 of 25 when I ran into the impossible challenge on MSR. The Kudos system in MSR was flawed because you could rack up serious Kudos on the timed laps by just doing slide turns back and forth. Now it is much harder the other way. Still PGR is very pretty but expect to hit the wall quickly if you are not a racing ace.

So far the Xbox racing titles have been good but too damned hard. Rallisport Challenge, I got stuck at the first big championship. You can’t retry individual races in a series and there are NINE in the first championship. Problem is one or two slip ups and you are in 3rd or 4th. Do that too many times and you don’t get first in the series which you need to advance. It really desperately needs a retry or save between series races like GT3.

Sega GT 2002 does sound interesting and I will definitely rent it and it sounds like I might even buy it. I know I won’t get more out of it than GT3 (87% done, a good 3 weeks straight put into it) but from what I have read here I think I would like it.

– Xaroc

17

Damn I hate it when it logs me out. :(

– Xaroc

18

mtkafka - I’m pretty sure Summoner 2 is exclusive to the PS2.

Yeah, I hit a wall in PGR as well. Not as soon as 3-4 hours, but still long before “completing” it.

The problem is that kudos are additive, not cumulative. As in, if your kudos score for a race is 1150, and you race it again and get a 1250, then your new kudos score for that race is 1250 and your TOTAL kudos goes up by only 100. Because it’s the sum of the kudos score for all your races, not additive of the kudos you score in every race.

Wheras in those games where you earn money, you could race the same race over and over, getting $1150 each time, and your total cash would keep going up by $1150. So money-based games are more self-balancing. If you’re stuck, you just race what you’re good at and can win, and you’ll eventually get enough cash for that better vehicle that will get you un-stuck. In PGR, if you can’t do any better in any of the races you’ve already done, you won’t ever get any more kudos.

If I happen to bump into the PGR people at E3 this May, I’m going to tell them about that fundamental difference in how PGR doesn’t self-balance like money based race games do, and see if PGR2 will be better that way (since it’s not due until 2004). They said when it was announced there would be new ways to earn Kudos, but no details.

But man, I love PGR’s physics. Visible damage is a really nice touch, but the fact that your wheels can leave the ground makes all the difference for me. It’s not just about catching air, it’s about the physics of turns on changing slopes and stuff. PGR is the only major licensed-car game that gets all that stuff right, because it CAN, because they managed to get legal permission to have your wheels leave the ground. Even GT3 hasn’t got that.

19

Someone told me about catching some air in Sega GT, but I haven’t confirmed it. I think it was in the gamefaqs.com forums, hardly the most credible of sources.

But anyway, I didn’t really mind the Kudos system (in PGR, MSR was rough). I thought that it was kind of a nice alternative to the “well just do this race over and over till you’ve got the money” because it was “Just do this race over and over until you’re better at the game.”

20

In GT3, at least on the rally races for sure, you can definitely leave the ground. I did enjoy the physics of PGR a lot as well. I just thought they swung the difficulty pendulum back the other way too far. I like challenging but not impossible. There was that one timed run where you had to get like 1600 kudos to get a freaking bronze where previously the bronze was 800. I ran it a number of times with my best car but I think I got maybe 1200. The worst thing is the jokers you can play to double your score don’t apply until after they determine if you get the bronze so you can’t even play a joker to get the medal and move on.

PGR is a very well done game just if you are new to racing games don’t expect to get far. I am not an ace but I have beaten a lot of the hard races in GT3 where they force you to use a standard car against racing variants. Those are what I would consider challenging but not impossible.

– Xaroc