Was that aimed at my post?
And to contribute something semi-worthwhile to the thread: us europeans seem to have to wait for the PS2 version till 22 Oct.
I don’t know. He seems to have done an awfully good job of calling all the clique-ish type, rote-response gamers dipshits without getting the standard knee-jerk response from them. (Albeit, it could be because they didn’t read the original post.)
I didn’t find it at all hard to parse, though I think the references to Japanese RPG beefcakes in the shower are a bit out of place with regards to calling out the PC gamers and FPS snobs, primarily because it’s a reference to things they’ll have no clue about.
But frankly, that post is far more likely to get a point across in the way he’s made it than the simple, concise, version:
Viewtiful Joe is being released for PS2, and cheap. All you whining, mewling complainers about PCs having the only worthwhile games are wrong. All you people who get turned off by the “kiddy” quality of brightly colored games are wrong. All you folks who think there’s no innovation in games are wrong. It’s all right here, in a solid package, for a great price, and you’ll still pass it up because of your asinine pre-conceived notions without ever giving it a try.
The above paragraph would have started a 28 page “discussion” which would eventually devolve into the “Console games are inherently less mature than PC games” vs. “Wah! I hate it when PC gamers look down on me because I own all 17 consoles from this generation.” debate. I don’t think conciseness would in any way have helped his goal, which was, just possibly, to get folks who didn’t try VJ when it first came out to give it a go now and get in on what has to be one of the most superlative games to be released in the last 5 years.
Nowhere am I advocating for Kitsune to cut down on his posting habits to that length. I am not asking him to dumb down or shorten what he writes in that manner. I am suggesting he be less wordy, he be more concise, that he have more focus.
I realize how that could be confused with me saying, “Write like you’re writing a blurb for a magazine,” but it’s not. I’m saying that maybe, just maybe, cutting down on the Fansite Writing Style ™ would be a good idea, that having a clear point and an interesting, non-cluttered style would be a plus.
Nothing I said, not a single thing, would require him to significantly change who he is or what he writes about. It wouldn’t take him from writing three page papers about Viewtiful Joe if he wanted, he could still do that, of course, but it would be a major plus if all three pages were focused and had a point readily available.
That’s just me, though, and I’m damned tired of people being assholes to him (me included) when they don’t read his stuff. It’s cool if you want to point out that something is incorrect or debate a point, but don’t be a jerk about it.
Likewise, if you’re a Kitsune fanboy, don’t accuse us of not reading the articles or not understanding where he’s coming from or not being from Japan as a defense. That doesn’t work either.
With all due respect to Kitsune, I am not jealous of anyone posting multipage flights of game-related fancy on a message board. My job requires me to (among other things) write short, two-to-three minute scripts that convey information, criticism, and entertaining commentary about individual videogame titles. Concise writing is perhaps the closest thing to a religion I have. One of the best guidelines to follow when writing is “It can always be shorter.” Your job as writer is to figure out when further cutting would leave your piece curt or incomplete and when leaving it longer would result in a meandering or unfocused piece.
Cool Breeze’s advice was well-meant and certainly applicable. I see no reason to claim the reason he spent what was obviously a good chunk of time trying to help was because he was acting out of spite or envy.
I wish the “we’re all snowflakes” dodge was less common nowadays. When Episode 3 comes out and sucks, I’ll just start saying that nobody gets George Lucas’ “different style” of filmmaking.
There’s always room for improvement, no matter how impressive one’s accomplishments. Anyone who writes often or seriously can get something useful out of Cool Breeze’s post.
Reminds me of my grade teacher who when asked about page length said, “Make it like a young girl’s skirt: short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover all the important information.”
Hey as a hardcore PC gamer I have read enough good opinions about Viewtiful Joe to know this is a game I would love to play. But there is no goddamned PC version and I am not prepared to waste my money on a shitty Playstation 2 console to watch the low resolution graphics on my 68cm TV.
Where is the PC version ?!?!?! :x
Viewtiful Joe is a fantastic game, except for one thing:
Early in the game you go through a sewer level. Pretty bad, right? Well, later in the game you go through the exact same sewer level … with lava everywhere. That’s right, a lava sewer level.
But whatever. The rest of the game is really, really great.
I understand what you’re saying; I’m saying I don’t think he could be much more concise without tripping those triggers in a large portion of his audience. Call it “acclimation through obfuscation” or what have you; his writing style while being off-putting to some is also diffusing to a lot of folks. Is it something that would work well in a modern American game magazine? Probably not, unless it was just the type of odd culture/personality piece that it seems to be here. But sometimes just getting to the point isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. I think the majority of each of the paragraphs he writes are what gives his writing the certain appeal that makes some folks willing to read through it. I think if it were more concise and focused it could well be good, but it would also be different.
More to the point though, why not just use the general principle of message boards:
If you like it, read it. If not, read it, post meaningless flames about the character of the writer’s relatives, and then move on?
What brought on the desire to reform Kitsune’s posts specifically? (Did I miss a solicitation for writing advice somewhere?)
[size=2]Edit: Because I felt like a total moron having a glaring (to me) grammatical error in a thread about writing. Feel free to laugh inwardly about all the glaring grammatical errors I apparently failed to notice.[/size]
Some games are worth the price of a console solely. Forget the PS2, get the damned Gamecube version, and pick up something else of worth for the Gamecube along with it. (I suggest Beyond Good and Evil if you’ve not played the PC version, or Prince of Persia, or perhaps Eternal Darkness, Soul Calibur, or Ikaruga. All $19.99, all great games, and the ones that are available on PC blow on PC primarily due to control structure.)
A console is cheaper than a reasonable PC memory upgrade. There’s not really a compelling reason not to add a console to your repertoire if you just like games. If you don’t like the PS2, pick something else up; all three have enough inexpensive games to justify the initial hardware outlay (assuming you’re not morally opposed to fun games simply because they play on a brightly colored box).
(And no, thanks, that’s exactly as far as I want to go in the whole PC vs. Console debate thing. :) )
Actually, you would probably hate it. Either that or all this time you’ve been complaining about console games, you’ve actually just been mistaken about what they have to offer. Because Viewtiful Joe is very much a typical console game with some innovative mechanics tacked on.
Also, CoolBreeze, you might want to know that Kitsune’s self-taught. He’s learning the language as he goes and while I’m sure he appreciates tips and pointers, there’s no need to rip on him with raw, unadulterated criticism like that. How would you like someone who’s played violin all his life being arrogant and impatient with you just as you’re starting to get the hang of the notes?
There’s a not-so-fine line between saying “Hey, Kitsune, your post might be a little easier to digest if you did some self-editing” and what you just did. While I don’t doubt that if Kitsune has the intestinal fortitude to read what you wrote (a sterling example of self-restraint by example cough), he might learn a few things about writing, I’m quite certain you could have said it differently. You know, without the insults?
I don’t mean to contribute negatively to the signal-to-noise ratio here, but I’m not sure I understand your argument, Jakub.
Specifically, I’m not quite convinced about the argument that learning a language tends to lead to an overly verbose mess of unabridged written thoughts.
My understanding of foreign langauge literature is negligiable, but don’t aren’t there some common techniques and goals in the field of writing, regardless of langauge? I’m now interested to know how Japanese writing, both common professional and literary, falls in the matter of succinct wordchoice.
I believe that Kitsune’s learning of the English langauge and his growth as a writer are two different entities and we should be able to discuss them seperately.
No offense to anyone intended. Except for nutsak, that fucking bastard.
On an unrelated note, I’m looking forward to the a chance to play Viewtiful Joe on the PS2.
When you people are done attacking the reasoning behind what I said, the peripheral statements I made, and are ready to actually discuss what I said and why I said it, I’ll be ready.
Until then, continue thinking up mindless dodges for the non-existant reasoning behind what I said.
mouselock: I simply became tired of people being both assholes and fanboys to Kitsune. I myself have been, and I didn’t want to do it anymore. If I have constructive criticism, which I think would be the entire reason he is posting this to a message board, then I’ll give it. Otherwise, I’ll keep my mouth shut.
I’m unsure as to why the logic of a message board being about discussion is escaping some people here, but if Kitsune posts something, then I’m going to comment. I’m trying to offer up help for it and I’m getting more flack than the people who are simply going “Haha Kitsune is a Japfag.”
Whether you would like to argue against my points or simply create arguments to argue against isn’t a concern of mine. Whether or not Kitsune’s writing is pleasing to one group of people and not to another isn’t a concern, however, all of the people who say his English is perfect and his writing style is immaculate are flat out incorrect. Each paragraph being a singular unit is fine, as long as they are not a part of a bigger picture. Well, they are, and that means the bigger picture tends to be meandering and lack an overall coherency.
Again, when you feel like actually talking about what I’m saying, I’ll be waiting. Until then, continue to argue for Kitsune since he’s not here. When you feel like saying something other than “Oh shit, being concise will butcher his style! God knows that all of the creative writers in the world were meandering and didn’t ever have a point!.. I can’t think of one off of the top of my head but they exist!” then I’ll be waiting.
Eh? I took his purpose for posting to be saying “Hey you people who didn’t have a GC when VJ came out the first time, it’s coming out again, it’s cheap, and you really owe it to yourself and the field of gaming in general to go pick this up.”
I have no clue why you’d think he posted that so you could critique his writing style. (I mean this literally, not in a “You asshole, how dare you attack him!” manner, but rather in a “Where in there did you see a request for criticism of writing style?” vein.) I just assume he writes like that because he finds it fun. I know I write to message boards in the style I do because it’s fun for me. Same reason I’ll get into endless, go-nowhere arguments about MMOs on messageboards (and get just as verbose as Kitsune does).
Not my specialty at all but I think this is reasonably untrue. You can’t write without thinking about what it is you are writing about, and there seems to be a reasonable body of evidence out there that native languages frame our method of thought. (Including something reasonably recent about math and primitive tribes that indicates if you don’t have distinguishing words for quantities other than “1, 2, many” that you, in fact, can only distinguish between 1, 2, or many.)
The Japanese language is radically different from Latin based alphabetic languages. I would imagine that has more than a few deep-ingrained effects on writing style in another language. Certainly even among romance languages different writing styles seem to emerge based on the strictness of language construction (which is, among other reasons, why faithfully translated works from other languages often seem stilted).
English is a branch of the Germanic tree, not the Latin tree.
I’m sorry. This discussion is over. If we have to act like this is the Happy Fun Cooltime messageboard then you can count me out. What someone posts is open game. When Tom posts something, people can critique it all they want. When Kitsune posts something, people can critique it all they want. Why is this such a hard thing to grasp? Why why why why why?
I write like I write for fun, too, but I take on a completely difference tone and manner when writing something professionally. It seems to me that being posted to the front page of a gaming website, and then having your posts Announced, means you’re doing it for more than fun.
Again, is this a hard concept? No. Why is it not being grasped?
Ha ha, that’s as bad as Devil May Cry 1, which arrived at its first boss by combining lava with… spiders.
But at least you don’t have to fight the lava spider in a sewer!
I’m sorry. This discussion is over. If we have to act like this is the Happy Fun Cooltime messageboard then you can count me out. What someone posts is open game. When Tom posts something, people can critique it all they want. When Kitsune posts something, people can critique it all they want. Why is this such a hard thing to grasp? Why why why why why?
I write like I write for fun, too, but I take on a completely difference tone and manner when writing something professionally. It seems to me that being posted to the front page of a gaming website, and then having your posts Announced, means you’re doing it for more than fun.
Again, is this a hard concept? No. Why is it not being grasped?[/quote]
you’re not wrong, walter, you’re just an asshole
Constructive, Dude.